Which SC to choose: Cosworth Vs. Edelbrock Vs. Harrop?

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Chronology

Your assumption that snapping a belt is the only failure that can happen? Keeping a belt in the car is one thing, trying to figure out a S/C failure at a track or on the side of the road is a different story. With the Kraftwerks, you can pretty much "disable the s/c' by removing the belt. So if you have a critical failure on the S/C (minus the belt) your stuck. I personally don't have the skills or tools to diag that type of failure and would require me to take it to the shop, id rather drive my car then have it towed.

Which is why I chose Cosworth. So that wouldn't happen

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

OK most folks seem to record about 240whp or therabouts with our kit so maybe the drivetrain losses aren't quite as extreme as you may think? Also we deliberately under quoted the uplift as +80Bhp (crank) in reality its more like 95Bhp (crank)
and probably the reason the kit is a lot in Bahrain is the the exhaust cost
if you leave the stock manifold on it and fit a decent catback of at least 2.5" diameter with all straight through silencers you'll still hit 270Bhp on 93 and 260 on 91
we hope to have the uprated bottom end for sale about March time

1- Yes Bahrain guy (Kar performance shop) was going to install the whole thing 2.0+1.3 + his labor.... But that brings a question of WHY the re-branded exhaust+ Thermostat + drop in filter + of the shelf tune is so freaking expensive?

2- I 'wanted to go Cosworth way since day 1 when you released stage 2.0, but the lack of solid numbers + the lack of dyno numbers from the consumers made me hesitant to do it... till today my eyes are at Cosworth kit... but I'll be honest, I don't have enough facts that justifies the insane cost. and I asked a while ago about if there is any validated data for stress testing this kit in extreme weather, I didn't get any.

I thank you again for your proactivness in answering my questions and for being so transparent.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

1- Yes Bahrain guy (Kar performance shop) was going to install the whole thing 2.0+1.3 + his labor.... But that brings a question of WHY the re-branded exhaust+ Thermostat + drop in filter + of the shelf tune is so freaking expensive?

2- I 'wanted to go Cosworth way since day 1 when you released stage 2.0, but the lack of solid numbers + the lack of dyno numbers from the consumers made me hesitant to do it... till today my eyes are at Cosworth kit... but I'll be honest, I don't have enough facts that justifies the insane cost. and I asked a while ago about if there is any validated data for stress testing this kit in extreme weather, I didn't get any.

I thank you again for your proactivness in answering my questions and for being so transparent.

You could always do the supercharger and then your own concoction of an exhaust thats 2.5" or 3"? Wouldn't you do that with the Edelbrock or Harrop?

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Wow 270-280 on 91 Fuel and on stock internals and normal engine compression? that would be great, if verified I'll go for E-Force.

I would say that those figures on 91 Oct/95 RON are highly optimistic. I'd expect no more than ~265whp on 93 octane without any manifold changes.

Originally Posted by UNREAL

I 'wanted to go Cosworth way since day 1 when you released stage 2.0, but the lack of solid numbers + the lack of dyno numbers from the consumers made me hesitant to do it... till today my eyes are at Cosworth kit... but I'll be honest, I don't have enough facts that justifies the insane cost. and I asked a while ago about if there is any validated data for stress testing this kit in extreme weather, I didn't get any.

Harrop being in Australia probably has the most time spent in hot temps, however the Cosworth has been stress tested on an engine dyno to simulate hours of track time. It's well known that the kit is good at heat management, which is where the issues normally arise. However based on there being "no validated data", you face the same dilemma with all 3 options.



Apologies for the small image but it's the best I can get quickly. Both on UK 99 RON I believe so gives a good quick comparison.

[Xxyion]

My tune just got finished today. I'll probably get this dyno'd in the next week or si, i'll keep you updated on this thread.

[Matt@Cosworth]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

1- Yes Bahrain guy (Kar performance shop) was going to install the whole thing 2.0+1.3 + his labor.... But that brings a question of WHY the re-branded exhaust+ Thermostat + drop in filter + of the shelf tune is so freaking expensive?

2- I 'wanted to go Cosworth way since day 1 when you released stage 2.0, but the lack of solid numbers + the lack of dyno numbers from the consumers made me hesitant to do it... till today my eyes are at Cosworth kit... but I'll be honest, I don't have enough facts that justifies the insane cost. and I asked a while ago about if there is any validated data for stress testing this kit in extreme weather, I didn't get any.

I thank you again for your proactivness in answering my questions and for being so transparent.

1) I acknowledge the exhaust is not the cheapest and the trouble is with our aftermarket strategy is we sell to a reseller who then sells it onto a dealer who then sells it to the customer
This isn't a policy I'm happy with as we work pretty hard at making the product as good as possible and as a consequence the BOM cost tends to be on the high side for the market and this cost then gets multiplied up 3 times..... our competitors don't do this or if they do then their base cost is a lot less than ours for reasons you can probably work out
And the exhaust is made bespoke to our specification, yes Nameless make it but its a bespoke system not just re-branded

2)
regarding the lack of customer dyno numbers I believe the ones that have been published have more than backed up our dyno claims
as our power figures are corrected to ISO1585 and we don't use funny fuel or extra cold air (97RON & 25degree C)

as for testing in extreme weather, I'm assuming you mean hot ambient ?
I drove our dev car to the south coast of Spain and back in 40 degrees C and raced it around the Ascari race circuit
the kit was also run for over 300 hours on the test bed and this included a 50 hour full load test where the cycle was 45 seconds of full throttle accelerating through the gears to max revs, with a 15 second idle rest and then repeat until the 50 hour mark was reached

I don't know of any other SC manufacturer that has done this

[weederr33]

For the Cosworth dyno, the 2 I know of were Enigma and Rally Sport Direct. Both hitting around 250whp.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Chronology

I know the OP hasn't asked but have you looked at the Kraftwerks SC? The ONLY reason I bring this up is because if you have an issue with any other S/C (that I have found) your stuck on the road. With the Kraftwerks, its run off a separate belt, so if its not working its a ton of dead weight, but you can get home and not need to be towed.

Just a thought.

I see this comment often about the KW kit... however, Rotrex SC's are not supposed to be run on the ribbed belts they use (Rotrex themselves say this), so that is a downside.

My other immediate though is... how often does a belt break on a properly installed kit.
They've solved a problem, but how big was the problem to begin with?!

I'm interested in this thread because I want a Harrop kit... but it's a fair bit more (close to $1000 more) than the edelbrock!

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

1) I acknowledge the exhaust is not the cheapest and the trouble is with our aftermarket strategy is we sell to a reseller who then sells it onto a dealer who then sells it to the customer
This isn't a policy I'm happy with as we work pretty hard at making the product as good as possible and as a consequence the BOM cost tends to be on the high side for the market and this cost then gets multiplied up 3 times..... our competitors don't do this or if they do then their base cost is a lot less than ours for reasons you can probably work out
And the exhaust is made bespoke to our specification, yes Nameless make it but its a bespoke system not just re-branded

2)
regarding the lack of customer dyno numbers I believe the ones that have been published have more than backed up our dyno claims
as our power figures are corrected to ISO1585 and we don't use funny fuel or extra cold air (97RON & 25degree C)

as for testing in extreme weather, I'm assuming you mean hot ambient ?
I drove our dev car to the south coast of Spain and back in 40 degrees C and raced it around the Ascari race circuit
the kit was also run for over 300 hours on the test bed and this included a 50 hour full load test where the cycle was 45 seconds of full throttle accelerating through the gears to max revs, with a 15 second idle rest and then repeat until the 50 hour mark was reached

I don't know of any other SC manufacturer that has done this

My dad had a Cosworth V8 conversion done on his old Ford Sierra back in the 1990's... and it was EPIC.
I personally (through the above) will agree that Cosworth quality is really great... however, the reason I'm not looking at your kit is the cost.

I am busy looking at Harrop and Edelbrock which are your closest competitors, and for a DD guy like me who is after a great experience and doesn't really care about "248whp" vs "251whp" it's about quality (tick to all 3) + reliability (again, tick to all 3 - but the tuner in particular) + overall nice power and torque... again, a tick to all 3.

So my problem essentially is justifying paying more for your name basically.

If you guys were priced the same as the other 2 kits, then I can almost guarantee you I'd be a customer.

#Justsaying and hopefully it's something Cosworth can solve.

[Matt@Cosworth]

well thanks to Brexit you'll be getting a 20% discount at least now?