Goodbye American Civil Rights. You no longer exist

[Giccin]

http://www.viewshound.com/politics-u...y-america-died

Obama signed the bill.

Better not grow any beards, protest, or look suspicious!

Late on this but... guess the almighty country is down the shitter!

[Mari0]

Lol so what's new? @.@

[switchlanez]

WOW he did? Must be some pressing reason like intel probably picked up on some serious retaliation activity since Bin Laden's assassination. Otherwise Obama signing it is ludicrous.

I used to work next to an airfield in San Diego. Anybody could take pilot classes there. The terrorist pilots of 9/11 learned to fly on that airfield and they lived down the street from my office building. So they can be anywhere.

But this signing is a declaration of fear. Anybody watch Apocalypto? Fundamental example of what fear does to a civilization.

[WhiteGDB]

*Goodbye

[LSxJunkie]

If you're really worried about jackbooted thugs kicking your door down and holding you without cause, protect yourself. Setup something with a friend or parents to contact a lawyer if you disappear. You can still file habeas if you've been detained by the military. I have a very strong feeling that the courts will not allow what you think is going to happen to happen. They haven't when it comes to Guantanamo detainees. The courts have the power to invalidate unconstitutional bits of legislation, and have on numerous occasions since the war on terror began.

[chulooz]

Are you for real Giccin?
Do some research about the National Defense Authorization Act before you run around saying the sky is falling, its not a big deal unless youre a terrorist.

[ahausheer]

I don't get all the hype around this. This doesn't apply to US citizens if I read the bill correctly.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Are you for real Giccin?
Do some research about the National Defense Authorization Act before you run around saying the sky is falling, its not a big deal unless youre a terrorist.

You don't get it do you? This bill says that American citizens can be detained by the military without cause and without right to a trial just because they are "terrorists". Let me repeat that again AMERICAN CITIZENS CAN BE DETAINED WITHOUT CAUSE OR WITHOUT TRIAL. Who sets the definition for terrorist? Is it someone with a suicide bomb strapped to them? Or is it someone who could be protesting wall street that throws something at a building? Freedom isn't taken in one swift action, it's chipped away until it's all gone. The foundation of this country is built on the bill of rights which includes the right to a trial. This bill effectively curtails those rights. Out only hope left with this thing is for the courts to overturn it. The first sign this was going to pass was when we killed that American cleric by assassination and no one raised an objection. He was an American citizen who was not provided a trial. Was he a bad guy? Yeah, but that doesn't mean he should lose his rights as an American because of it.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

I don't get all the hype around this. This doesn't apply to US citizens if I read the bill correctly.

Yes it does, at the request of the administration American citizens were included as possible detainees.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

You don't get it do you? This bill says that American citizens can be detained by the military without cause and without right to a trial just because they are "terrorists". Let me repeat that again AMERICAN CITIZENS CAN BE DETAINED WITHOUT CAUSE OR WITHOUT TRIAL. Who sets the definition for terrorist? Is it someone with a suicide bomb strapped to them? Or is it someone who could be protesting wall street that throws something at a building? Freedom isn't taken in one swift action, it's chipped away until it's all gone. The foundation of this country is built on the bill of rights which includes the right to a trial. This bill effectively curtails those rights. Out only hope left with this thing is for the courts to overturn it. The first sign this was going to pass was when we killed that American cleric by assassination and no one raised an objection. He was an American citizen who was not provided a trial. Was he a bad guy? Yeah, but that doesn't mean he should lose his rights as an American because of it.

This. +1. Well said.

[tranzformer]

Just wanted to add this quote by Martin Niemoller:


"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

You don't get it do you? This bill says that American citizens can be detained by the military without cause and without right to a trial just because they are "terrorists". Let me repeat that again AMERICAN CITIZENS CAN BE DETAINED WITHOUT CAUSE OR WITHOUT TRIAL.

Ok....people letting the headlines and sound bites get in the way of the facts again. READ THE EFFING BILL PEOPLE!

Link to the full Bill
Note: This link is a search result and will time out after a few days....just type "1031" into the query box and you will get to it again.

Originally Posted by National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012

S.1253
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (Reported in Senate - RS)

Subtitle D--Detainee Matters

SEC. 1031 . AUTHORITY TO DETAIN UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS CAPTURED PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.

(a) In General- The Armed Forces of the United States are authorized to detain covered persons captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) as unprivileged enemy belligerents pending disposition under the law of war.

(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person, including but not limited to persons for whom detention is required under section 1032, as follows:

(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.

(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

(c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following:

(1) Long-term detention under the law of war without trial until the end of hostilities against the nations, organizations, and persons subject to the Authorization for Use of Military Force.

(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)).

(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.

(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.

(d) Constitutional Limitation on Applicability to United States Persons- The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

SEC. 1032. REQUIRED MILITARY CUSTODY FOR MEMBERS OF AL-QAEDA AND AFFILIATED ENTITIES.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) in military custody as an unprivileged enemy belligerent pending disposition under the law of war.

(2) APPLICABILITY TO AL-QAEDA AND AFFILIATED ENTITIES- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any covered person under section 1031 (b) who is determined to be--

(A) a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an affiliated entity; and

(B) a participant in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031 (c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.

(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.

(b) Requirement Inapplicable to United States Citizens- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(c) Effective Date- This section shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons described in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody or brought under the control of the United States on or after that date.

So, while the whole "indefinite incarceration" aspect of the bill certainly is an affront to civil liberties, it does not violate a citizen's constitutional rights.

[chulooz]

Thanks for outlining that Oneday.

The media really can get the best of the public under the right circumstances.

I love this country, and hate terrorists; so I am glad this bill was signed.

[Dave-ROR]

oneday: Don't bother, I posted that info before, no one likes to actually have to read and understand the bill in question. Instead it's easier to freak out I guess.