Tracking with Forced Induction

[gbgracer]

I track my FRS regularly and really enjoy it's many virtues in that environment. So far my mods have been limited to springs, sway bars, brakes(pads, lines, fluids), wheels and tires(Michelin Super Sports 225/45/17).

However, I'm seriously considering going the forced induction route. My big concern is reliability though, especially since I live in Texas.

My question is what is the most reliable route(turbo or supercharged) and is there any additional mods that would be needed to make sure that the car continues its with it's amazing reliability?

Additionally, what are some recommendations of brands between the two from those that have done one of the mods and tracks their car regularly?

Thanks!
Gary G

[OICU812]

Folks like Mike can assist with this.

@CSG Mike

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by gbgracer

I track my FRS regularly and really enjoy it's many virtues in that environment. So far my mods have been limited to springs, sway bars, brakes(pads, lines, fluids), wheels and tires(Michelin Super Sports 225/45/17).

However, I'm seriously considering going the forced induction route. My big concern is reliability though, especially since I live in Texas.

My question is what is the most reliable route(turbo or supercharged) and is there any additional mods that would be needed to make sure that the car continues its with it's amazing reliability?

Additionally, what are some recommendations of brands between the two from those that have done one of the mods and tracks their car regularly?

Thanks!
Gary G

Most of the superchargers are plenty reliable. I don't think your problem will be so much reliability as it will be combatting heat. Mike said that the Jackson Racing charger runs pretty cool, which is a positive.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by gbgracer

I track my FRS regularly and really enjoy it's many virtues in that environment. So far my mods have been limited to springs, sway bars, brakes(pads, lines, fluids), wheels and tires(Michelin Super Sports 225/45/17).

However, I'm seriously considering going the forced induction route. My big concern is reliability though, especially since I live in Texas.

My question is what is the most reliable route(turbo or supercharged) and is there any additional mods that would be needed to make sure that the car continues its with it's amazing reliability?

Additionally, what are some recommendations of brands between the two from those that have done one of the mods and tracks their car regularly?

Thanks!
Gary G

I am on the same boat and have been considering the alternatives for a while. I recently pulled the trigger on the Kraftwerks SC kit and received it recently. I did a couple track days ( see my signature) to get a baseline I took some logs (NA) and after the install I will take logs to compare.

Track reliability also my first priority so I did an extensive research of my options and came to a conclusion. Centrifugal SC units should be a better fit for track use since it generates less heat in the engine bay and less load (boost) in the lower RPM levels. People from other platforms seem to be happy with their Rotrex supercharger kits when they track their cars.. Let's see how OEM oil cooler (combined with KoyoRad) helps, if it's not sufficient I will most likely add an air to oil cooler.

You might wanna take a look at the Kraftwerks and Jackson Racing kits, I believe the KW kit has a larger intercooler which might help keep the temps steady at track . Bob from driftoffice recently posted a shootout about the 5 most popular SC units

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61589



also another good read
http://cms.kraftwerksusa.com/id/941/...created-equal/

http://cms.kraftwerksusa.com/id/941/...created-equal/


good luck

[sw20kosh]

You can go turbo but you must make sure you can cool down your oil and coolant.

[diss7]

Heat is a function of work. The same motor making 300hp can be working a lot harder than another. So you want to be efficient.

Now everything is a compromise. A really efficient setup for track isn't going to be as ideal for the street, and vice versa.

Once you know the power you want, look at compressor maps. Find a turbo that will be as efficient as possible in the revs seen at the track. That's doesn't mean at redline, track rev range is 5500-7500. So the one that shows the best average comp efficiency in that range, for the power you want. Then pick a turbine housing that can efficiently flow that power.

Both these aspects contribute to better VE. Cooler air, cooler EGT.

Some people say pick the smallest turbo that get reach a target hp. And that's an understandable method for a street only car, as it will give the earliest spool up.

But on the track, you are using 5500-7500; so do you really care if the turbo spools a few hundred rpm later because you chose the larger turbine housing?

That was my methodology anyway. I only want 280-300whp. I could've gone with a gtx2860r, gtx2863r, gtx2867r, gtx3071r, gtx3076r.

All turbos could achieve the power. When I plotted the comp maps, the gtx2867r had the highest average comp efficiency in the rev range, target power, and estimated boost. The two smaller ones were getting too far beyond their peak efficiency islands. The two larger ones were not getting into their ideal efficiency islands. The two larger ones would still have been okay, and also provided more head room if wanting 350whp, which changed everything and made them the better choice.

Then looked at turbine map and a 0.63 a/r is getting near choke at the level I was chasing (so obviously not efficient) so I went with the 0.86.

So I could've gone with a gtx2860r 0.63, which would have made for a lightening quick spool setup, but it would gotten inefficient at the rev range I wanted to rape it in. I also could have gone the other end and gone gtx3076r 0.86, but it offered no more comp efficiency at my level, and I didn't need a gt30 frame 0.86 turbine housing. I could've gone 0.63 housing on the gtx3076r, but that pretty much flows the same as a 0.86 gt28; so I don't gain any efficiency, but lose response and gain lag as now I have bigger wheels to move.

If you want to so the homework (and learn to do it yourself) the info is out there to do so. The key is to be realistic.

Asking broad questions on forums such as you have, is only ever going to result in "I have this kit and it's good" More often than not, these opinions are subconscious self justification bias, and realistically, most will blindly back their own choice, and have not actually tried anything else; and often have just bought their kit from an ad, or another persons review saying that it's awesome.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gbgracer

I track my FRS regularly and really enjoy it's many virtues in that environment. So far my mods have been limited to springs, sway bars, brakes(pads, lines, fluids), wheels and tires(Michelin Super Sports 225/45/17).

However, I'm seriously considering going the forced induction route. My big concern is reliability though, especially since I live in Texas.

My question is what is the most reliable route(turbo or supercharged) and is there any additional mods that would be needed to make sure that the car continues its with it's amazing reliability?

Additionally, what are some recommendations of brands between the two from those that have done one of the mods and tracks their car regularly?

Thanks!
Gary G

If Reliability is the largest concern, superchargers win hands down. There are less parts that can fail.

[D K]

Somebody needs to come up with a variable pulley for the supercharger.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If Reliability is the largest concern, superchargers win hands down. There are less parts that can fail.

I don't agree this, it insinuates that a turbo charger system is less reliable, simply because it has marginally more parts. One could argue that's a benefit, as if a blow off valve needs replacing, it's a generic part, ditto with the turbo, the housing, the wastegate. Also, turbo systems are much easier to service. Take the unit out and send it to the local recon shop, $400 later and it's good to go. SC's often have to go back to the manufactuer.

Originally Posted by D K

Somebody needs to come up with a variable pulley for the supercharger.

They have, it's called a turbocharger.

[4032pauln]

If you do decide on a super charger, jackson racing is the way to go. There has not been an issue with that kit, based on the forums of the course

[RehabJeff86]

There are better mods to shave ur lap time than adding more power at ur stage of tracking, sorry but base on your mod list im assuming u hv less than total of 15 track days experience, no offense, i just hit my 20th track day mark, and FI is still not on my list of mods to shave time yet, go with better tires, high end suspension properly dialed in, front lip and rear spoiler, u will be surprised how much faster u can get than adding FI


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[4032pauln]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

There are better mods to shave ur lap time than adding more power at ur stage of tracking, sorry but base on your mod list im assuming u hv less than total of 15 track days experience, no offense, i just hit my 20th track day mark, and FI is still not on my list of mods to shave time yet, go with better tires, high end suspension properly dialed in, front lip and rear spoiler, u will be surprised how much faster u can get than adding FI


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How about all the stuff you just said, plus a fi??? That's gotta make u even more faster right?

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by 4032pauln

How about all the stuff you just said, plus a fi??? That's gotta make u even more faster right?

Be honest with you, so far none of the FI kit out there has convinced me that it will shave my lap time cuz im still faster in NA with OEM shocks and springs than peeps with FI and full coilover, this makes me believe FI and not properly set up suspension easily throw off the amazing balance 86 was made hence slower lap time

The most impressive mod i had that shaved a ton of lap time so far is tires - try BFG Rivals, they r amazing, now im on Nitto NT01


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[car_roll]

Originally Posted by 4032pauln

How about all the stuff you just said, plus a fi??? That's gotta make u even more faster right?

Fast driver > fast car.

OP can benefit more from better driving, better driving, even better driving, better tires, and better suspension, in that order. Power should be one of the last things to worry about.