Best V8 pullout for swap

[jeepmor]

Is there a preferred V8 package to pull out and swap into the first gen 86 platform? I see lots of LS3/T56 swaps on youtube, but curious if there's a best car out there to yank it from.

Also looking at 2JZ stuff, but the Chevy's are just easier to find. Blew motor recently, looking at options.

[Rex1585]

It totally depends on your goals or plans.

Are you tracking the car?
Do you have any rules that you need to abide by?
Is this more of a fun street car?


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[jeepmor]

Originally Posted by Rex1585

It totally depends on your goals or plans.

Are you tracking the car?
Do you have any rules that you need to abide by?
Is this more of a fun street car?


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Not tracking, just commuting, but want more and looking at the spend outlay pretty closely being I have to get my car back on the road.

Rules, I live in smog country, pretty sure that's a yes.

Yes, still a fun street car. LS3/T56 would be my top level entry, namely for aluminum block and the transmission. I'd prefer higher winding engine to match the current car rev range like a 5.3, but it becomes a big mix of parts after that. Prefer an aluminum short block over an iron one regardless of donor for weight.

Asking conversion outfitters what the best donors are and such. I understand there are some accessory format issues and I want to keep my air conditioning. Drive train change fitment parts are out there.

Engine/trans pkg before conversion parts, about 6-9k via corvette/camaro 2010-15 range seems to be the norm. Then conversion parts, 5-10k. Ball park looks so far. Looking at Sikky and Vorschlag for reference. Not much else out there I can find yet. And I haven't done the part by part detail yet either. Looking for the best donor material.

[Irace86.2.0]

Go for a Camaro over a Corvette unless you want to make room for a torque tube and a transaxle. The engine/clutch/transmission should all be available from a Camaro as one package. The LT1 from the newer Camaro has VVT, direct injection, higher compression, etc (see below). That would probably be better. If you think you can piece it all together for cheaper or want more discplacement or something new or something built then the options are vast. GM crate motors for a LSX can be built to your own spec, and you can buy a T56 Magnum for a more custom position with the shifter.

https://philkotse.com/car-maintenanc...fferences-9670

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30486564272...RoCAusQAvD_BwE

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29557763242...RoCQUwQAvD_BwE

[Irace86.2.0]

Just looking down the subthread you will find:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137489

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128216

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138458

[gtpvette]

Preferred for me would be best bang for the buck as the swap costs will add up in a hurry. Older aluminum LS1/LS2 should be cheaper than newer motors and based on FB Marketplace there are transmissions around, well at least here but they do get spendy.

Whats the current expectation for total costs these days?? $12K-$15Kish??

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

Preferred for me would be best bang for the buck as the swap costs will add up in a hurry. Older aluminum LS1/LS2 should be cheaper than newer motors and based on FB Marketplace there are transmissions around, well at least here but they do get spendy.

Whats the current expectation for total costs these days?? $12K-$15Kish??

Kswaps are about that. For a full swap that you do yourself? Maybe for the main parts. It depends on what engine/trans you want, if you want full can bus, if you plan to modify the engine and do a custom dyno session, etc. LS1 and LS2 packages can be cheaper, but sometimes not much relative to the cost of the whole swap and to the value of the power, fuel efficiency, etc. A Motec system or Haltech is not cheap either. Add in cooling, custom driveshaft, custom harness, custom exhaust, custom intake, custom mounts, custom oilpan, custom shifter, etc.

The nice part is the V8, high displacement, compact, lightweight, high power/torque, etc. No trans adapters/custom flywheels needed, so you can use the stock clutch, meaning you can just buy a complete setup.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31403129720...gaAlyQEALw_wcB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29540208791...UaAjYDEALw_wcB

[Axis2011KR]

Originally Posted by jeepmor

Is there a preferred V8 package to pull out and swap into the first gen 86 platform? I see lots of LS3/T56 swaps on youtube, but curious if there's a best car out there to yank it from.

Also looking at 2JZ stuff, but the Chevy's are just easier to find. Blew motor recently, looking at options.

You can get pretty much everything you need from Sikky for the swap parts apart from the engine and trans. I'd plan on $20-25K without getting crazy for a LS3 done right without a built motor. You can also get a brand new crate LS3 with tranny for about $14K, buddy just bought one for his Factory Five.

You can't get into a 2JZ swap done right for anything under $35K in my opinion. When you've got stock high miles GTE motor for $7K that needs a full refresh on gaskets/water pump/oil pump, stand alone and wiring harness hitting for $5K easily, single turbo conversion $3-7K, custom radiator, intercooler piping, FMIC, etc. I'll be in closer to $60K on my 2JZ but that's fully built, big turbo, Ford 8.8, big fueling, etc.

[jeepmor]

Thank you for the inputs and reminding me of the vettes and their transaxles. Forgot about that. I was finding LS engines from vettes and camaros on allamericanclassicsdotcom so I mentioned them.

Okay, 2JZ fantasy is done, thanks. I've done the math on Sikky V8 swap and concur. Seeing Camaro engine/trans ls3/t56s out there, but they have price range from 8-14k depending on year. I know there is some accessory work to make everything fit neatly. And more.

I prefer less than the LS3 being it's just a modern low rev 383 torquezilla. I'd prefer an LS that can spin to the 7400 redline as I've become accustomed to the top end of the FA20 with the SC attached. I'd prefer a smaller displacement engine 7-8k redline capability. Or that on the LS3, but that's too much. I have to keep reminding myself it's really just my commuter.

On the flip side, I'm pretty limited putting an IAG block in and returning to the HKS SC unit in regards to power. Like the shop said, you'll get what you being it lacks the adjustability of a turbo.

I can add the E85 injectors and fuel pump, plop a tune in and run 300whp, which admittedly is quite good for this car as a commuter and weekend canyon carver type. But if I go back to pump gas, I have to change my tune again on my current setup. And don't want to play the switch game if I don't have to. I'd go with a flex fuel sensor and custom Ecuteck tune that adjusts on the fly. Shop stated some new EPA regs are changing things and getting more invasive. Sounded messy, details developing.

All this is why I started looking at a V8 option. A chunk of change is getting peeled off regardless of the path, may as well understand the numbers. If I go with my wanna budget, I'm buying a used Cayman S or new Supra being they finally put an MT in it, and ditching my 86. I'm not there yet, those cars are heavier, and Porsche or BMW, much more expensive on the cost of ownership as well.

Like my colleague said, "If you end up within a couple thousand of the V8 swap versus your rebuild, you'll always regret it."

Still no numbers from the shop, mechanic on vacation a few days. They work a lot, all good.

My hooptee 87 Honda Accord DX 5 spd is staying together so far. Only wipers, a light bulb and a bumper painting project with the kid since I got it. Boy, those bumpers cleaned up nice considering a 20 dollar can of SEM brand paint. Really took some hoop off the tee. Less than a 100 bucks in, haha. Pretty good hooptee so far, no leaks or smoke. 312k miles, 27mpg, drivers window won't roll down, drivers side rear door won't open. Kid's 15, needs to get his permit, this is his motivation over me driving a decent rental for a month or more. Every kid's first car should be a POS that keeps it together. ~300 miles on my watch, only revv'd to 4k of a 6k redline so far, bit nervous to push it. Public transit as my other option, is awful being, well, Portland area.

That's my situation at the moment. I can afford a supra or cayman, I just don't see the value. This chassis is too good to abandon. Maybe that's how I tell the wife. The Supra is 70k love, only spent 30k keeping my 20k car running....haha. Let's go for a drive.

[DustinS]

The rev limit on my 418ci stroker LS3 was just over 7k and shifted at 6800. The LS3 is, in my opinion, one of the best stock engine options for a swap. If you wanted to rev it higher, just need to get a cam designed to use more rpm. The amount of low end torque and higher power these produce makes up for not having to rev to the moon.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by jeepmor

I prefer less than the LS3 being it's just a modern low rev 383 torquezilla. I'd prefer an LS that can spin to the 7400 redline as I've become accustomed to the top end of the FA20 with the SC attached. I'd prefer a smaller displacement engine 7-8k redline capability. Or that on the LS3, but that's too much. I have to keep reminding myself it's really just my commuter.

On the flip side, I'm pretty limited putting an IAG block in and returning to the HKS SC unit in regards to power. Like the shop said, you'll get what you being it lacks the adjustability of a turbo.

I can add the E85 injectors and fuel pump, plop a tune in and run 300whp, which admittedly is quite good for this car as a commuter and weekend canyon carver type. But if I go back to pump gas, I have to change my tune again on my current setup. And don't want to play the switch game if I don't have to. I'd go with a flex fuel sensor and custom Ecuteck tune that adjusts on the fly. Shop stated some new EPA regs are changing things and getting more invasive. Sounded messy, details developing.

All this is why I started looking at a V8 option. A chunk of change is getting peeled off regardless of the path, may as well understand the numbers. If I go with my wanna budget, I'm buying a used Cayman S or new Supra being they finally put an MT in it, and ditching my 86. I'm not there yet, those cars are heavier, and Porsche or BMW, much more expensive on the cost of ownership as well.

Personally, if you have the money for a Cayman or Supra and are interested in those cars then you should go drive them first because doing so will either make you quickly forget doing a swap, or it will reinforce doing a swap. You would be best knowing and not assuming before taking on such a huge project, assuming you have never driven one of these vehicles.

Your options for reliability is either a built FA20 or a used FA24, as both would have more overhead, and you really need E85 and a flex-fuel setup to run boost reliably on this platform. If you think you wouldn't like the LS3, just rent a Camaro for a day and a Mustang and compare the two motors (higher displacement vs high revving). The cost to rent is super cheap compared to making a bad decision. Your 86 will feel identical in a straight line, except for weighing less, so being faster and sitting lower in a smaller car, but it should feel the same in terms of how it revs and how the power comes on. If you don't like the sound and feel of either then you have some decisions to make. This is really the best advice.

The most straight forward motors to swap in this chassis with an engine/transmission and support would be the LS, Coyote and VQ, as they are sold in America with plenty of aftermarket support and with RWD transmissions stuck to them, so you don't need to worry about adapters, big flywheels, etc. The VQ is only 3.7L, so power would be similar to a supercharged FA20/24. The 60 degree engine sits taller than the 90 degree V8s. The Coyote is huge compared to the LS, which is why the LS is a far better choice. The Coyote is a few grand cheaper on eBay, but it is down 1.2L on the LS, and it has less support for swaps. Overall, I see the LS as being cheaper and easier with better support. I go back to just renting a Camaro and Mustang to see for yourself if the power delivery and rpms matters.

You could do a K24 swap, but it is more race car than a daily, IMO having done this swap, and it would be negligible compared to a built FA20 or FA24 swap in terms of price (the motor is just cheaper to replace if you blew it again and again).

Personally, I would test drive all four cars I mentioned, and then I would figure out what feels best. I wouldn't guess or assume what you might like. While I like my K24 setup, in hindsight, I loved my Harrop FA20 setup. I will probably buy a Harrop SC and drop it on the FA24 when Harrop releases it and not look back, but I will also be test driving a 911 and Cayman 4.0 beforehand, so we will see if my mind is changed.


Pictured below is the 5.0L Coyote x 2 compared to the LS in the last pics x2. The LS is significantly smaller.

[jeepmor]

I'm coming to terms with the rev range as I dig more, and agree it's a non-starter for comparison. And the LS3 does spin higher than I expected. I lean to a built IAG block and my SC and E85 and live with it, or an LS engine. These are the only options I'm considering. I do see there are limits to the FA20 regardless of how stout it's built. And building it out with wild cams probably a wasted spend on the commuter

As stated, doing the math. Even if I go full tilt V-8, its roughly 1/3 the spend of the supra or cayman I'd be after. And I can build the wife a new kitchen with the savings, as I may have to, or buy her a newer Chevy Duramax right before the DEF started.

Maybe I go take those test drives and take her with me and let nature take it's course. If we find something we agree we just gotta have, that'd be sweet. Or she'll green light the V8 build being she doesn't want to spend 75k on a new car. Hmm, could be a good plan.

Meanwhile, still no IAG replacement numbers for comparison, so twisting back and forth in my head. I get a new/used car about every 9 years on average and have always bought them in March as well. This one lasted 9 years and 1 month, and died in April. Bummer, the gods have spoken.

[Irace86.2.0]

One other thing to consider might be resale value. I tend to not drive the car a lot, but hold onto cars for a long time, so retail could be a factor for me, but ultimately it isn’t a huge concern. My coworker bought a 911 997.2 GTS years back and sold it last year for $40k more than what he bought it for. The market was particularly up, and 911s mature this way. Plus, electrification is driving prices up, but my point is a Cayman or Supra might resale better. The Cayman for sure, if bought used.

[Rex1585]

As mentioned, most of the LS architecture will spin up, with a cam swap and tune. GM had an aluminum 5.3 high output in the SSR and a Silverado during the same time.

The issue with that one, from memory, is they go for almost what an LS1 goes for.

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