Where are all the high lift/duration camshafts!

[M23]

JUN..yum yum. Wondering if they're for FI or NA doe.. Maybe bof'?

What about Spoon or Toda cams??? Or even other smaller domestic/American brands (Skunk, Bullfrog, JG, etc.)

As far as piston clearance..good concern. Maybe HKS is just wary of valve float perhaps? ..maybe stiffer springs is all that's needed.

[M23]

Weren't Skunk2 camshafts pretty popular (and good?) back in the day, for Honda B motors? I remember they, and jdm oem, camshafts were the main/common choices. (I forgot if they were good and had positive reviews tho.. I never had them; but I did have oem Type-R cams). Maybe Skunk2 should make some cams.

Anyone hit Skunk2 up if they're planning to make some cams?

[stugray]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Been almost two years now and no one has developed a performance camshaft for the FA20 yet? Seems like a huge untapped market.

SO you are assuming that there is room left for higher lifts or longer durations?

[industrial]

Originally Posted by M23

Weren't Skunk2 camshafts pretty popular (and good?) back in the day, for Honda B motors? I remember they, and jdm oem, camshafts were the main/common choices. (I forgot if they were good and had positive reviews tho.. I never had them; but I did have oem Type-R cams). Maybe Skunk2 should make some cams.

Anyone hit Skunk2 up if they're planning to make some cams?

I think if more traditional vendors like TRD, HKS, Toda, Kelford and Crower have looked into the FA20 and produced no product with their massive R&D infrastructure...there is no hope for the product we are looking for. I bought a supercharger.

[M23]

Hopefully those JUN cams work for NA.

I'd easily rather get cams/headwork/tune with 245whp, than a SC with the same 245whp (which is usually the typical number for all these SC kits with carb/stock-tune)...heck, I'd take 225 NA whp over 245 SC whp

..and I am sure cams (<$1-1.5k), springs/retainers ($500), install ($1k) and tune ($1k) (maybe even a port and polish and valves ($1-2k)), will be much cheaper than a $5k SC kit. Full Blown has built heads for $2.5-3k.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by industrial

I think if more traditional vendors like Kelford and Crower have looked into the FA20

just emailed them, I'll post their response if I get one.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by M23

Hopefully those JUN cams work for NA.

I'd easily rather get cams/headwork/tune with 245whp, than a SC with the same 245whp (which is usually the typical number for all these SC kits with carb/stock-tune)...heck, I'd take 225 NA whp over 245 SC whp

..and I am sure cams (<$1-1.5k), springs/retainers ($500), install ($1k) and tune ($1k) (maybe even a port and polish and valves ($1-2k)), will be much cheaper than a $5k SC kit. Full Blown has built heads for $2.5-3k.

Well, I waited for a while and the numbers didn't add up like that for me. Regardless of whether you stay NA or FI, I was looking at $700 for ecutek, $500 for flex fuel, $800 for headers and $1000 for the over/front/exhaust. Getting NA screamer heads built and installed would be around $6-7k or more likely closer to 10k since you will be pioneering. Getting a SC kit (KW) ended up being around $3500 and I can do the install myself. NA on e85 I would expect a hypothetical 225-275whp if you could get the motor to hold together for 9000rpm. FI(KW c30-91) you can expect an easy proven 250-330whp at 7000rpm. NA just doesn't make sense which is probably why it's all vaporware and hypotheticals after 3 years and seeing dozens of FI kits released.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by M23

Hopefully those JUN cams work for NA.

I'd easily rather get cams/headwork/tune with 245whp, than a SC with the same 245whp (which is usually the typical number for all these SC kits with carb/stock-tune)...heck, I'd take 225 NA whp over 245 SC whp

..and I am sure cams (<$1-1.5k), springs/retainers ($500), install ($1k) and tune ($1k) (maybe even a port and polish and valves ($1-2k)), will be much cheaper than a $5k SC kit. Full Blown has built heads for $2.5-3k.

How is that cheaper than a $5k super charger kit that you can install yourself?

cams 1.5k
springs 500
install 1,000
tune 1,000
port and polish 1,500
------------------------
$5,500

or with pre worked heads
$6,500 - $7,000

And the boosted car will walk away from you because torque


My point is money is NOT a valid argument with NA vs FI. NA power will almost always be more expensive. It's a personal preference. Nothing wrong with either approach, they are just different.

I think the main reason people go NA over FI is becasue you can do NA mods one at a time so you can start enjoying the moddification process and the little jumps in power along the way. And your not driving a stock vehicle while you save money. In the end you just end up spending more to get less. I speak from my own dumb ass experience. I have already gone through 2 headers, 2 over pipes, 2 front pipes, 3 catbacks, 12 hours of dyno time, brz edit license, etc etc.... I could have easily paid for a Jackson racing carb kit by now... but I would have been driving a stock FRS in the mean time...

[D K]

Wonder if the Jun cams are just a re grind lime the BC??

Whats the base circle on the Jun cams?

[Apoc]

SCR Performance did a teardown and assessment of the FA20 engine prior to a rebuild and REVVOLUTION.COM did a writeup on it here http://www.revvolution.com/blog/2014...he-fa20-4u-gse. It is interesting what they had to say about the cams.

"An oil-actuated system (ACVS for Active Control Valve System) allows for near continuous camshaft adjustment to offer the most power for a given throttle position and rpm. Both the intake and exhaust cams can alter their relation to the crankshaft, and the whole show is monitored by the ECU."

"Speaking of the camshafts, SCR noted they have nice big fat lobes, so they may not be something we need to worry about swapping out. Couple that with the near infinite adjustability of the cam timing, and there may not be much need to put big aftermarket cam shafts in to get the power."

[M23]

Originally Posted by Apoc

SCR Performance did a teardown and assessment of the FA20 engine prior to a rebuild and REVVOLUTION.COM did a writeup on it here http://www.revvolution.com/blog/2014...he-fa20-4u-gse. It is interesting what they had to say about the cams.

"An oil-actuated system (ACVS for Active Control Valve System) allows for near continuous camshaft adjustment to offer the most power for a given throttle position and rpm. Both the intake and exhaust cams can alter their relation to the crankshaft, and the whole show is monitored by the ECU."

"Speaking of the camshafts, SCR noted they have nice big fat lobes, so they may not be something we need to worry about swapping out. Couple that with the near infinite adjustability of the cam timing, and there may not be much need to put big aftermarket cam shafts in to get the power."

Yes, I read this before too. So, I guess a tune is all that's really needed. Luckily for us, tunes are always progressing and making more power.

Hmm..I wonder if milling the heads a little for higher CR would do anything significant for NA.

[M23]

@mad_sb @industrial:

Yes, I see your points regarding NA builds being expensive. It's always been known to be expensive for little in return. But, I honestly think you guys are over exaggerating a little bit:
- Flex Fuel isn't required (but nice to have). Some of us want to stick with pump.
- Header and exhaust...that's already a given for both SC and also NA. Shouldn't be added to just the NA build costs alone.
- "NA screamer heads" for $7-10k?? I think not. It's actually not complex at all. A quality and simple port and polish (I've had experienced friends back in the day that did countless heads for well known engine rebuild companies; not ultra complex at all) and valvetrain parts can be done for $3-4k.
- SC kit is $5k... at least the ones I want that are really nice and come with tunes.
- No need to go 9k+ rpm.
- NA will have superior response and consistency over SC or any FI. Perfect for track.

...I agree with @mad_sb point... NA is great because you can get a part or 2 at a time and in "jumps"..unlike splurging $5k for an SC kit.

Spending more to get less? Definitely. It's NA after all. But NA response, consistency and reliability will always be nice at the track, on the street and during the car's life.

As far as experimenting and spending more money than needed with 2 headers, 2 ops, 2 fps, 3 catbacks, etc...well, that's your problem/GAS JRSC is always sexy(my 1st choce if going SC) ...but I really dig NA.

[M23]

I guess JRSC is the best route/way to go. Regarding most bang for the buck. Not to mention actually being available today and also easily installed in a day or two.

NA build would take a lot of waiting and patience (since no significant parts (cams) exist yet), tuning, failed pioneering, etc...maybe several months to a few years to fully complete.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by M23

I guess JRSC is the best route/way to go. Regarding most bang for the buck. Not to mention actually being available today and also easily installed in a day or two.

NA build would take a lot of waiting and patience (since no significant parts (cams) exist yet), tuning, failed pioneering, etc...maybe several months to a few years to fully complete.

That is the exact conclusion I arrived after all of my NA changes.

I just want things to be a certain way with this car, that is why I have replaced all the exhaust parts at least twice

At this point I am saving for the JRSC.. I will have to change headers again because neither of the two I have (nameless longtube, and fa20 longtube) will fit as far as I am aware anyway.... derp