AP Racing "Sprint" BBK long term update

[OrbitalEllipses]

Even if you're not interested in the kit, I highly recommend reading the technical posts. Some of it's marketing for sure, but there's a lot of great brake information that you will find useful even if only retained in your repository of knowledge.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Other than stopping power, didn't someone talk about the benefits of cheaper pads/rotors and longer lasting pads/rotors before? (can't remember which thread).

Can you elaborate on this?

Currently running OEM setup with the TF Brake Cooling kit; front pads are lasting around 6 total track days ($180 a set) and OEM-based rotors are lasting around 6 days as well ($90 a set). Looks like I'll get about a years worth of events with the rear pads. I'm fine with the braking capabilities of my setup, just curious of long term costs vs. BBK initial cost and long term expense.

We're on track to average around 8-15 days per set of pads (depends on the track... Laguna Seca and Auto Club Speedway are murderous on brakes), which is roughly 2.5x longer than pads on the stock calipers. However, the pads themselves, on average, cost about 5-25% more. OEM size pads typically last 2-4 days, depending on the track.

OEM rotors or replacements average about $200/pair (ballpark) for the fronts, and typically last 1 set of pads (for us) when they're on the verge of fully cracking.

The increased life is a function of a larger pad(50% thicker, ~85% more pad material), larger (thicker) rotor, increased cooling area (more vanes, more surface area), and increased heat sinking with larger components.

Keep in mind that less experienced drivers will probably have reduced wear rates, but the increase in brake life will still be consistent.

The numbers:
2-4x pad life for 1.2x the cost.
3-4x rotor life for 1.5x the cost.

Additionally, if you do decide to sell the BBK at a later point, you'll recoup a lot of the initial investment in purchasing the BBK to begin with.

While absolute braking performance isn't increased, the BBK will allow for much finer control when you're modulating the brakes, whether its threshold braking, trail braking, or left foot braking, and give you massively increased heat capacity. There is a minor performance gain from having less unsprung and less rotational mass.

Anyone who is tracking more than a few times a year will save money with a BBK.



@ImperiousRex is at about 15 track days on his current set of pads, and has around 2/3 of the pad remaining.

@D1cker is at about 5 track days on his current pads, and has over 75% remaining.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

We're on track to average around 8-15 days per set of pads (depends on the track... Laguna Seca and Auto Club Speedway are murderous on brakes), which is roughly 2.5x longer than pads on the stock calipers. However, the pads themselves, on average, cost about 5-25% more. OEM size pads typically last 4 days, although it can be as little as 2 at tracks like Laguna Seca and Auto Club Speedway.

OEM rotors or replacements average about $200/pair (ballpark) for the fronts, and typically last 1 set of pads (for us) when they're on the verge of fully cracking.

Keep in mind that less experienced drivers will probably have reduced wear rates, but the increase in brake life will still be consistent.

The math:
2-4x pad life for 1.2x the cost.
3-4x rotor life for 1.5x the cost.

Additionally, if you do decide to sell the BBK at a later point, you'll recoup a lot of the initial investment in purchasing the BBK to begin with.

While absolute braking performance isn't increased, the BBK will allow for much finer control when you're modulating the brakes, whether its threshold braking, trail braking, or left foot braking, and give you massively increased heat capacity.

Anyone who is tracking more than a few times a year will save money with a BBK.



@ImperiousRex is at about 15 track days on his current set of pads, and has around 2/3 of the pad remaining.

@D1cker is at about 5 track days on his current pads, and has over 75% remaining.

Yeah, I am seeing the rotors last about the life of pads, but dang, $200? you buying OEM from Subaru?

15 days is incredible on a set of pads. I'm getting about 4-6 days out of mine, depending on what pad combo, but mostly at Sebring, which is very hard on brakes.

Hey @Dave-ROR, what are you seeing at Sebring with your AP kit?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Yeah, I am seeing the rotors last about the life of pads, but dang, $200? you buying OEM from Subaru?

15 days is incredible on a set of pads. I'm getting about 4-6 days out of mine, depending on what pad combo, but mostly at Sebring, which is very hard on brakes.

Hey @Dave-ROR, what are you seeing at Sebring with your AP kit?

http://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-serie...-+Single+Rotor

Not the rotor I'd go with...but I see it is possible to get cheapo blanks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

http://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-serie...-+Single+Rotor

Not the rotor I'd go with...but I see it is possible to get cheapo blanks.

I've cracked 3 c-teks in 2 sessions before...

I stick to Brembo blanks on my own car, with Centric Premium as a backup when I can't get Brembos (I usually buy a stack at a time...)

[OrbitalEllipses]

Agreed. Brembo blanks are fucking pricey though.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Agreed. Brembo blanks are fucking pricey though.

Only about $55 for my s2k

But they're still not as cost effective as a BBK. Nowhere near. Problem is, clearing a BBK on the S2k is really, really difficult.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Good thing we have no such design limitation! The Brembo blanks in STI size were hideously expensive if I recall...but I had no qualms about running a DBA rotor in that application.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Good thing we have no such design limitation! The Brembo blanks in STI size were hideously expensive if I recall...but I had no qualms about running a DBA rotor in that application.

I agree. Clearing a BBK on the FRS/BRZ is just a minor consideration when selecting wheels... and you can always get higher offsets and run spacers/extended studs, so options are nearly limitless.

My wheels need a 20mm spacer to clear the Sprint kit on the S2k... which would mean I need a widebody or at least wide fenders. My fenders are already rolled and pulled...

This is a CSG customer's car... you can see how tight the clearance is. He's running track camber (the car is tracked regularly).

[ZionsWrath]

Showing all the little things considered when this car was designed.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Das hawt.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Das hawt.

He rolls on Ohlins TTX36.

I don't think he's ever swapped pads either...

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

http://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-serie...-+Single+Rotor

Not the rotor I'd go with...but I see it is possible to get cheapo blanks.

that's even a bit too cheap for my taste, lol.

I went with the Centric "premiums":
http://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-serie...-+Single+Rotor

They're fairing better than the OEM rotors did on my first 2 days out with them on track, even with a more aggressive pad setup than I had with the OEM rotors (more front bias on my XR2/XR4 combo now than my DTC-60 square setup that I ran on the original rotors).

[OrbitalEllipses]

Premiums are decent rotors, but no directional vanes or any fancy stuff like that...which ultimately is going to help your braking performance at the track.