Predict the Nurburgring Lap Time for the FT-86

[fitftw]

I posted this in the GT5 laps thread, found it very interesting:

Nurburgring Toyota GT86 '12 bone stock with oil change

Lap 1 8:43.5
Lap 2 8:40.5

Real life times on the 'Ring:
8:38 Honda NSX
8:39 Honda S2000
8:39 Mazda MAZDASPEED3
8:42 Lotus Exige Mk1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

I'm not the best GT5 driver, but I'd say around 8:40 would be the actual time in real life.

[Snoopyalien24]

lol i selected

What's a Nurburgring?

Because no one remembers the AS1 at the ring?



Bear in mind that this was its first outing on the track and that the company’s intentions wasn’t to the race win but to give the car a thorough test on the Ring. The FT-86 did cross the finish line, which is probably what the Gazoo Racing team and Toyota intended after all.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

lol i selected

What's a Nurburgring?

Because no one remembers the AS1 at the ring?



Bear in mind that this was its first outing on the track and that the company’s intentions wasn’t to the race win but to give the car a thorough test on the Ring. The FT-86 did cross the finish line, which is probably what the Gazoo Racing team and Toyota intended after all.

That's the 24hr configuration, not the Nurburg we are running in this challenge.

[RaceR]

FITFTW my previous post in this thread pretty much explains it. The big large one right up there..
In summary, GT86 comes with semi slicks in GT5.

I think the time of GT86 will be around 8.43 if they put some high performance summer tires on it.

Just did another 3 laps in a stock GT86 (with "super oil" and 300km break in)
Laptime 8.12.670, could still do better.. (atleast 8.11.xx)
That should mean the best GT5 drivers could do around 8.05 in a "stock" 208bhp GT86 on semi slicks..

Edit: I now voted "8:40-8:49".

[fitftw]

I would assume most people who buy this car will upgrade the tires to something like Dunlop Star Specs, which would be equivalent to Sports Medium or Soft...

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by fitftw

I would assume most people who buy this car will upgrade the tires to something like Dunlop Star Specs, which would be equivalent to Sports Medium or Soft...

No, read my big post again. That would be about the same as comfort soft in terms of grip and lap times.. (probably closer to comfort medium than sport hard)

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by RaceR

No, read my big post again. That would be about the same as comfort soft in terms of grip and lap times.. (probably closer to comfort medium than sport hard)

So you think that the Comfort Softs are equivalent to Dunlop Star Specs? Have you ever driven in Real Life on a set of Star Specs?

Since the GT86 can drift 2nd gear on the stock tires in the game, I would LOOOOOVE to see someone throw on a set of warmed up Star Specs and try to break 2nd gear loose, let alone try and drift on them. Star Specs are NOT the equivalent of Comfort Softs in the game. Star Specs are the equivalent of Sport Mediums. Sport Softs I would say are the equivalent of R-comps in real life.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

That's the 24hr configuration, not the Nurburg we are running in this challenge.

ohh no wonder

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

ohh no wonder

Gazoo also stated that they were not pushing the car as hard and could have gone faster.

[Spaceywilly]

Here's something I was just thinking about regarding lap times. The Camaro ZL1 did the ring in 7:49 and everyone made a big deal about that. That works out to 100mph average. If the 86 does it in 8:45, that works out to 87mph average. So all that extra money and all that fuss is over 13mph. Obviously in a race every second counts but for me personally driving the ring at 87mph sounds just as fun as driving it at 100mph.

[RaceR]

Did some laps in the stock GT86 (with oil and break in, lets just call it stock now)

Sport hard : 8.12 (warm tires and several laps, as posted)
Comfort soft : 8.22 (1 lap only, laptime was 82.5 but reduced 3 due to cold tires and no training on the tires)
Comfort medium : 8.33 (1 lap only, actual laptime was 8.36.5, reduced 3,5 sec due to cold tires and no training on the tires)
Comfort hard: 8.47 (1 lap only, actual laptime was 8.51.5, reduced 4,5 sec due to some less smooth driving, cold tires and no training on the tires)

My speculation are based on Nordschleife lap times only..

-I think the stock prius tires are worse/not far from comfort hard. A better GT5 driver with some laps could do 8.40.
I do not think the a stock real life GT86 with prius tires could do 8.40 with a pro driver. Do you think that a a pro in stock GT86 could do lap Nordschleife in 8.3x on prius tires?

-I do not think that GT86 will do 8.33 on the high/max performance summer tires. Thereby saying, I think comfort mediums offers MORE grip compared to say a Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, wich is a max performance summer tire.

-I do not think a stock GT86 with Star spec tires will be close to 8.12 at all.
Thereby saying. I think they offer less grip compared to sport hard in GT5.
Do you think a stock GT86 with star specs tires could to that time?

Dragonitti, ill quote your previous post. "Star Specs are the equivalent of Sport Mediums."
I have not bothered doing a lap in sport mediums. Id guess it would be about 8.02 min.
Do you think a real life bone stock GT86 could do a 8.02 norschleife lap with star specs tires??
Because the way i see it your statement says so.

Just to take an example to back up my theory. Real life E46 M3 CSL does 7.50 on semi slick tires.
In GT5 M3 CSL does 7.38 on sport hard. Id guess it would do 7.50 on comfort soft.
Meaning, comfort soft on M3 CSL equals semi slick tires in terms of Norschleife lap times.
How would you rate the semi-slick Michelin cup tires on CSL compared to Dunlop Star Specs?

I will not argue against your point about warm star spec breaking loose on 2nd car Dragonitti. ... and GT5 physics are far from perfect! And people perceive it differently too.
If I do a lap in, say RUF Yellowbird in sport hard I actually do consider it a road tire. Not a semi-slick or some soft soft r-comps. Why? Because it is sooo easy to break traction on sport hard in that car that I would not consider it nothing else than a road tire, even tough the lap time says otherwise. It just ridiculous to drive that car on comfort medium, especially with the online physics(!), not that extreme offline, but still extreme.
I think we all share the same view in that case.

It looks to me that you and some other here share the same viewpoint that I have on the Yellowbird on GT86.
But the whole point of this discussion, atleast from where I am discussing it and how this thread is titled. It is not about how tires break loose. In some way, it is not about labeling real life tire and finding equvilent GT5 tire (even tough that is the way basically is the way of discussing it).
The whole point here is to replicate real life as good as possible in GT5, so that we could predict the real Nordschleife lap time of the GT86.
By doing so, we have to put on tires that would replicate it. If a certain tire, say sport hard makes the car way too fast, then we move on to a less grippy tire.
We know Nordschleife on GT5 replicates the real track quite perfect when looking at corners, length, width and elevation. We also know that GT5 replicates straight line acceleration and braking pretty good. It is VERY good at cornering speeds too, if you put on the right tire.
We also know that we can adjust how much cornering speed/grip we can get by choosing tires. So, to replicate real life as good as possible when driving on Nordschleife in GT5, we have to pick tires that replicates real life cornering speeds. Because if you chose too grippy tires, the car will lap the track way too fast... Its simple... ..right??

I think the people thinking that comfort medium (or hard) does not have enough grip on the GT86 just wants to adjust the physics of the game. Making the car not beeing able to break loose that easy, but still have the same lap time...
Thing is, we can not adjust physics, we can only adjust tires according to the lap times we want to achieve (if not considering driving skills en the equation)

[fitftw]

As I've pointed out, the NSX, S2000, Mazdaspeed 3, Lotus Exige, are all between 8:38 and 8:42 so there's no way the 86 is faster than any of those. I'm going to say 8:48-8:55

[Deslock]

I'm only a casual and occasional GT5 player, but I agree with RaceR regarding tires. After reading his posts about Sport Hard vs Comfort Soft, I did an experiment by buying an RX8 and running the Top Gear Test track on Comfort Soft tires (which the GT5 RX8 comes with) with the following settings:

1. No tuning, mods, or anything (not even oil change)
2. Grip = REAL
3. Driving Line = ON
4. ABS = 1
5. TC and all other aids = OFF
6. G27 MT w/clutch

All times are standing start:

1:31.8 - The Stig
1:31.4 - Me (Comfort Soft)
1.32.4 - Me (Comfort Medium)

That's roughly in line with my recollection of owning an RX8 years ago: it was between Comfort Soft and Comfort Medium (probably a little closer to Comfort Medium... keep in mind that I suck at GT5 and better players will get faster times).

For purposes of comparison, the RX8 came with 225/45 R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE040s while the GT86 is reportedly coming with 215/45 R17 Michelin Primacy HPs. According to reviews I read, the Primacy HPs are only slightly grippier than the Potenzas.

This is speculation, but I wouldn't count on the FT86's optional Michelin Primacy HP tires being better than Comfort Soft, and I don't see real world lap-times being as fast as those reported in the Official GT86 GT5 Stock Lap Times thread.

[Dragonitti]

Whether he is right or not....does it really matter? We are trying to have fun here, running times against each other, not debate and write full articles. The thread was created for the enjoyment of the members with GT5 and the latest GT86, not created so we can all speculate over what the GT86 will do IRL. Is the GT86 IRL tires are as grippy as the Sport Hards...no. Can you come to real times with less grade tires...most likely. Can the authenticity of physics be verified by GT5 though...yes, with the tires closely matching the production car. Again though, no one competing in the friendly competition cares. What I do find funny though is.....Where is Forza in all of this? BAHAHAHA!!

Sorry Forza guys...GT5 is taking over the forum...lol