AVO Turbo Kit Stage 2 - work in progress

[Calum]

There are zero tuners around here that I would trust with this car. Will base maps be available for someone like me? If so, how far off from these would they be?

That 8 psi map is spot on what I'd like but I can only get 91 octane.

Awesome work guys!

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by Calum

That 8 psi map is spot on what I'd like but I can only get 91 octane.

Awesome work guys!

Thanks, and stay tuned in the next couple of days... we're working on a 91 octane MT tune as we speak.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[sw20kosh]

Yay congrats! You guys reached 300 whp! Nice to see what is possible with this turbo.

[MSTiFK8R]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Still working on ironing some exhaust details out.

Very promising!


Have you guys ween any exhaust limitations for the power levels you're on by now?

AFAIK you have full 2,5" piping with a Hi-Flow Cat in the frontpipe, right? ( same as my current setup)

I wonder when would one benefit from going wider piping, as it is considered that the wider =the better for turbo applications

What EGT you see on top and what's the critical figures you should be careful of?

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Yay congrats! You guys reached 300 whp! Nice to see what is possible with this turbo.

As some would say, you haven't seen nothing yet. This kit and the turbo that's matched is highly capable. The real limitations are the OEM components. Of course, I don't think Toyobaru would have overbuilt their product and provided us supporting components to double the effective WHP, so really, your mileage would vary depending on your fuel, locality, et. al.

Originally Posted by MSTiFK8R

Have you guys (s)een any exhaust limitations for the power levels you're on by now?

AFAIK you have full 2,5" piping with a Hi-Flow Cat in the frontpipe, right? ( same as my current setup)

A 2.5 inch TBE is mandatory, and the less bends the better. AFAIK, the AVO car currently has a CATLESS front pipe. Paul should be able to shed some light on this since he's always testing their parts and switching them out. We've been trying out one other brand of exhaust with a HFC, but that doesn't currently seem to be playing out very well unfortunately. More on this, possibly later.

Originally Posted by MSTiFK8R

I wonder when would one benefit from going wider piping, as it is considered that the wider =the better for turbo applications

3 Inch would be nice, but at the sub 10 PSI range, the 2.5 in setup would be adequate, though not merely as ideal. It should be noted that MTs would need a clutch, probably beyond the 8 PSI / 220# TQ range. If memory serves me right, the stock OE clutch is rated at about 230#s, or at least that was the # that stuck in my mind. Don't quote me on that, but I can certainly see and feel that to be a valid number.

Truth be told, the conservative and cautious side of me would have anyone going past Stg 1 to get upgraded injectors and a fuel pump. This applies to both MT and AT models. This is especially true for the AT models because of the drivetrain loss; the engine has to work harder to get to the same power levels as their MT counterparts. I am however, not a big fan of the DW 265s that are currently out there and truth be told, is probably the only factor holding me back on pushing forward with more boost, and aggression to boot.

At some point, the OE sensors are also going to hit a physical limit, and the discussion of what "works" as opposed to what's "professionally correct" is going to come into the picture, and that's a whole nuther' can of worms altogether. But it's coming to be sure.

For now, since everyone has been harping on this "300whp" number, AVO figured it was time to share that portion of the development to show what this setup is capable of, and understand that the AVO car itself has been running this way for some time now as well.

On a side note, I'm not sure if any of the FI contenders have done longevity testing, in that the AVO car has already traveled some 7000 miles across various states with a different diet of fuel ranging from 91 - 93 and still has no issues as of today when I saw it, and this after six (6) Gymkhana sessions.

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[ft_sjo]

Bob- Great result. Can you confirm if the fuel system is return-less and if yes, whether or not any re-calibration is required in the tables when upgrading fuel pump?

[MSTiFK8R]

@Drift-Office

your detailed approach is the reason why I'm with you, AVO mafia )

I've prepared for 10+psi by purchasing 700cc injectors and HKS LA Clutch

only thing which puzzles me as you is the fuel pump

pls advise some trustful item to swap the stock pump with ease

I know Ross is doing some research on that, but has anyone the proper solution yet to feed this beast?

walbro? avo? else?

[SkullWorks]

AEM has a high flow in tank fuel pump (presumably a Denso unit made to AEM specs) that might be a good solution,

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Yes. And no, I don't recommend more than 8psi on stock fueling.

Why are you suggesting this? I'm running 10psi so far on oe injection and pump,sure its a whole different can of worms,but are you finding fuel delivery to be an issue past 8psi? just asking you to clarify the quoted statement, thx, perhaps you know something I have yet to learn, and can save myself some learning curve?

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Can you confirm if the fuel system is return-less and if yes, whether or not any re-calibration is required in the tables when upgrading fuel pump?

Yes, it appears to be a return-less system - and it stands to reason that you'll be changing the injectors along with the pump and therefore, the calibration will have to be re-tuned.

Originally Posted by MSTiFK8R

I've prepared for 10+psi by purchasing 700cc injectors and HKS LA Clutch

That's the route I'm going, to get myself an easy 300WHP, exhaust variants aside.

Originally Posted by MSTiFK8R

only thing which puzzles me as you is the fuel pump

pls advise some trustful item to swap the stock pump with ease

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

AEM has a high flow in tank fuel pump (presumably a Denso unit made to AEM specs) that might be a good solution,

@ SkullWorks, we're one of AEM's Infinity Distributors and have used their 320LPH pumps since Nov. They're awesome, inexpensive and are very capable, though they don't fit the BRZ / FRS / GT86. That pump is a basic walbro type and what we need is the smaller design which we have expressed explicit interest to AEM, but nothing as of yet.

@ MSTiFK8 ~ DW pumps are drop in, but having had personal experience with their 300lph walbro replacements and injectors, I'm more inclined to stay away. Again, that's just IMHO and my direct experience.

I will be testing out the DW pump(s) and another brand of injectors on the AVO and my personal car, and pending the results of that, we'll have to see. Until then, I won't be making any specific brand recommendations as of yet.

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

AEM has a high flow in tank fuel pump (presumably a Denso unit made to AEM specs) that might be a good solution,

Took alittle work to fit in the stock hanger but that might be the case with the other pumps too (AEM is all i have experience with though..) It also needed a rewire and relay after ~370whp on my car (e85 and no DI).

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

I will be testing out the DW pump(s) and another brand of injectors on the AVO and my personal car, and pending the results of that, we'll have to see. Until then, I won't be making any specific brand recommendations as of yet.

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Looking forward to you testing out the DW pumps...I've seen mixed results in other markets. A smaller AEM pump would be nice. I wouldn't suggest what i did to make it work to anyone else...

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Why are you suggesting this? I'm running 10psi so far on oe injection and pump,sure its a whole different can of worms,but are you finding fuel delivery to be an issue past 8psi? just asking you to clarify the quoted statement, thx, perhaps you know something I have yet to learn, and can save myself some learning curve?

Because we were running out of fuel, and I'd never suggest to anybody running a car as a DD or at the track to be running at or near max fuel flow capacity. 8psi range *on our turbo kit* is within the safety margin.

I think at issue here is all the different measurement systems being used to express the power of the various kits. If we were to take the general view that a hub dyno will show about 10-15% more power than, say, Drift Office's dyno, then conservatively, in relation to the hub dyno plots, we've been running in the 325whp range at 10psi, and the 298whp range at 8psi. Also, whp changes purely on where the torque is made, and may not be based on how much peak torque there is.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by Jesse@JDLAutodesign

Looking forward to you testing out the DW pumps...I've seen mixed results in other markets. I wouldn't suggest what i did to make it work to anyone else...

I know exactly what your talking about. But yeah, it would be nice to see exactly how well these DW pumps will work for FI.

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Why are you suggesting this? I'm running 10psi so far on oe injection and pump,sure its a whole different can of worms,but are you finding fuel delivery to be an issue past 8psi? just asking you to clarify the quoted statement, thx, perhaps you know something I have yet to learn, and can save myself some learning curve?

Not implying or knocking anyone's tuning strategy but ours (AVO / DO) is that of safety & preservation / longevity. 205ccs @ 10 PSI with DI might sound capable, but do we know actual duty cycles at that point?

Convention would dictate that if commanded & target AFRs meet, you've got enough. However, this being a combination DI fuel system, convention doesn't apply here as much and you're right, it's a whole different can of worms that doesn't belong here.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC