Branka: Country Road Specialist

[Pat]

Thanks for the post, Tristor. I did not call you a liar. Lying requires malicious intent, and I believe your intent was to be honest and helpful. Please do not take that personally, as it was not intended that way. I simply seek truth, and believe what you wrote (specifically the part I quoted) to be inaccurate.
I believe you had the experience as stated. It sounds frustrating and I wish you didn't have to experience that. I cannot explain why you experienced what you did.
I have only used two compounds with my Sprint kit. They are Hawk HPS and DTC-60. The HPSes don't squeal on the street, and the DTC-60s don't squeal on the track. I'd driven other 86s with the same brake kit using different pads, but cannot tell you specifically which compounds other than DS2500s, which were quiet on the track.
Plenty of other people around here use the Sprint kit on the street daily without noise. I wish I could tell you why your experience was different, but just can't.
I stand by my statement that the Sprint kit should be quiet on the street regardless of J-hooks.

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Pat

Thanks for the post, Tristor. I did not call you a liar. Lying requires malicious intent, and I believe your intent was to be honest and helpful. Please do not take that personally, as it was not intended that way. I simply seek truth, and believe what you wrote (specifically the part I quoted) to be inaccurate.
I believe you had the experience as stated. It sounds frustrating and I wish you didn't have to experience that. I cannot explain why you experienced what you did.
I have only used two compounds with my Sprint kit. They are Hawk HPS and DTC-60. The HPSes don't squeal on the street, and the DTC-60s don't squeal on the track. I'd driven other 86s with the same brake kit using different pads, but cannot tell you specifically which compounds other than DS2500s, which were quiet on the track.
Plenty of other people around here use the Sprint kit on the street daily without noise. I wish I could tell you why your experience was different, but just can't.
I stand by my statement that the Sprint kit should be quiet on the street regardless of J-hooks.

I have not tried any Hawk branded compounds on this brake kit. I've used them on prior vehicles in the past and found that the dust damaged my wheels so I've avoid them since. The compounds I have ran on this kit (between street and track) are: Carbotech 1521, Carbotech XP10, Ferodo DS2500, Ferodo DS1.11, and CSG Spec C2. You say the Ferodo DS2500 is quiet during street driving. That was not my experience, and there's a thread from way back in 2013 that is literally all about the fact DS2500s are noisy on the Sprint BBK.


Part of the issue /is/ bedding, that is, you can bed in the rotors but even with street compounds the transfer layer doesn't stay. Part of this, best I can gather, has to do with the effect of the J-hook on the pads themselves. Even strictly street compounds are impossible to keep bedded if you're doing any significant street mileage. On track only, it's true that the Sprint BBK quiets down by session #2 of the day due to improved bedding, however it never gets silent even under hard track use. To be clear, I also have friends locally running DS2500 on stock calipers and it makes no noise. But on the Sprint BBK, it's a different story.


I'll recommend the next owner try the Hawk pads. But for me, I am very happy with having much larger rotors/more thermal mass and the elimination of noise that came from switching BBKs (with the same compound I just ran down over 4 months in my Sprint BBK, bedded following the same procedure mind you). I wish my experiences with the Sprint BBK were as positive as yours, but all that said, I still really loved it on track. I think it's a very performant product, it's just not very neighbor/girlfriend-friendly.


In the thread above, someone said "After having mine installed now (1521). I think the problem is more the rotors.
Mine are perfectly silent now until you make 2 or more hard stops and then they start squealing horribly until they cool down again."



This describes my experience on street perfectly. My AP Racing Sprint BBK would be quiet with street pads pulling out of my garage, to the end of my street, and to the end of the main neighborhood road. But would make noise when I stopped the second time at the light. By the time I got to the next light on my way to the highway they'd be at full squeal, worsening for the next 2 normal stops until they were ear-splitting for the remainder of the drive, including all the way back into my garage. I started engine braking + using my e-brake to park my car because my neighbors wrote a letter of complaint to the city and I got a notice of noise violation from the police. This is WITH a good transfer layer which can be visually seen on explicitly street pads.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Tristor

You say the Ferodo DS2500 is quiet during street driving.

I didn't not say the DS2500 is quiet during street driving. I said they were quiet on the track.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Even strictly street compounds are impossible to keep bedded if you're doing any significant street mileage.

Just because you did not experience consistently bedded pads and a quiet Sprint kit on the street doesn't mean it is impossible. Plenty of us have done it with significant mileage. I have plenty of track and street mileage on my Sprint kit with no significant noise.
Again, I'm sorry to hear this was your experience, but to say this is "impossible" just is not accurate.

[Tristor]

I'm not dead, I'm now back from my overseas work trip and I arrived to find some goodies waiting for me in the form of Japanese and German precision hand tools. I've had a chance to try out all four of the new ratchets and my conclusion is I really like the feel in the hand of the Wera Zyklop ratchet the best, it's really truly nice and just feels "right". The mechanism in the Nepros 90-tooth ratchet is the finest mechanism of the bunch, and since it's a compact head (1/4" head size, 3/8" drive size) it should be amazing for tight spaces. I measured the swing arc as slightly less than its specified 4 degrees for it to click the pall, so it's going to be put to great use.

I'm kind of meh on the Stahlwille ratchet, but I may grow to love it since it's a bit beefier than the others and might hold up better to high torque use.

I also received a bunch of other hand tools in the mix as well, including a new set of screwdrivers, pliers, plier wrenches from Knipex, and a new set of combination wrenches from Asahi in Japan.

I won't get to spend a full day in the shop for awhile, but I've got a few items planned, and in the interim I'm just cruising along. Gotta recover from my trip really before I put my body through a full day in 90+ degree heat again.

[Tristor]

Update: I didn't make it to the track today as I had originally planned, unfortunately.

Yesterday I did get my transmission service done though, so now not only do I have a fresh fluid fill but a fresh filter and I've cleaned the valve body and the pan + magnets. I of course put new gaskets and crush washers everywhere in the process. I need to schedule a time to drive to Austin to get corner weighted again and a fresh alignment, when I do I'm going to get the rest of the SPL Parts catalog installed, mainly want the FLCAs and the end links, but figure I might as well run their tie rod ends and their trailing arms while I'm at it.

I'm going to be working on some suspension tuning on track the next few times I go out. I've been experiencing some understeer on T4/T5 complex, and I've been discussing with a few folks and I'm going to try some things. Hopefully I can be back on track next weekend.

[Tristor]

I have my appointment scheduled at Soulspeed in Austin for the 4th of November, and I've received my parts from SPL. I've got front and rear endlinks, trailing arms, front LCAs, and tie rod ends. Should be nice, and maybe with some bumpsteer tuning H2R won't be so troublesome.

I've also received the rest of the tools I ordered. At this point I have a full extra set of mechanics tools, but this time stuff with some quality.

I'm expecting I'll be back on track after my visit to Soulspeed.


In bad news, I appear to have damaged the finish on my Volk ZE40s despite them being ceramic coated with two layers of CeramicPro. They got hot enough that brake dust more or less baked on, and the process of removing it has scratched the surface. I'm waiting to hear back on how much it's going to cost me to get them fully restore/repainted. I don't want to powder coat them.

[Tristor]

Just got home from Austin and spending most of the day at Soulspeed. On my way back I went down a twisty country road I know about to give it a shake down. Whoa momma. This car is on rails now. Entire suspension, except for the rear upper control arms, is now billet arms with heim joints from SPL. SPL doesn't make a rear UCA unfortunately, but Racer X does, so I might grab some Racer X rear UCAs down the road for the weight savings and to eliminate the last rubber bushings in the suspension.

I'm very happy with how things are right now. Perfect 50/50 weight balance, perfect alignment (no cross toe, cross camber, cross caster, exactly the specs I want), and it just really feels tight and put together now.

Can't wait to get back out on track again. We'll see if I have another chance before the end of the year. It's looking like it might be 2020 before I can go again.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Just got home from Austin and spending most of the day at Soulspeed. On my way back I went down a twisty country road I know about to give it a shake down. Whoa momma. This car is on rails now. Entire suspension, except for the rear upper control arms, is now billet arms with heim joints from SPL. SPL doesn't make a rear UCA unfortunately, but Racer X does, so I might grab some Racer X rear UCAs down the road for the weight savings and to eliminate the last rubber bushings in the suspension.

I'm very happy with how things are right now. Perfect 50/50 weight balance, perfect alignment (no cross toe, cross camber, cross caster, exactly the specs I want), and it just really feels tight and put together now.

Can't wait to get back out on track again. We'll see if I have another chance before the end of the year. It's looking like it might be 2020 before I can go again.

How is the NVH from all the SPL parts (heim joint bearing) I wouldn't expect much being they are teflon lined but am curious. I am thinking about going the same route myself. I've heard noting but positive things about the feel.

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

How is the NVH from all the SPL parts (heim joint bearing) I wouldn't expect much being they are teflon lined but am curious. I am thinking about going the same route myself. I've heard noting but positive things about the feel.

They're surprisingly quiet given how solid it is. You will definitely hear them if you go over a good bump / dip / pothole, but generally they are quiet when flexing. On the down side, though, you will definitely feel a reduction in ride quality due to losing the play that was in the factory bushings. It's hard to put into words, but the best way I can think to to visualize it is that it's about the equivalent additional harshness of going 2-3 clicks stiffer on my dampers.

The flip side of all that, is when you find some good asphalt the car feels basically perfect. It's like driving a go kart, steering response is immediately with no slop, changes in road angle or going into a curve feels like it sets immediately and weight transfer occurs more quickly. It really feels great.

It's also a bit difficult for me to judge NVH in isolation because I've done so many other things to the car which affect NVH.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Tristor

They're surprisingly quiet given how solid it is. You will definitely hear them if you go over a good bump / dip / pothole, but generally they are quiet when flexing. On the down side, though, you will definitely feel a reduction in ride quality due to losing the play that was in the factory bushings. It's hard to put into words, but the best way I can think to to visualize it is that it's about the equivalent additional harshness of going 2-3 clicks stiffer on my dampers.

The flip side of all that, is when you find some good asphalt the car feels basically perfect. It's like driving a go kart, steering response is immediately with no slop, changes in road angle or going into a curve feels like it sets immediately and weight transfer occurs more quickly. It really feels great.

It's also a bit difficult for me to judge NVH in isolation because I've done so many other things to the car which affect NVH.

Thank you for the information! I appreciate it. They sound perfect. I don't care much about ride comfort within the City. Most of the roads are crap anyways (Not complaining, most city roads are like that) I found it "rough" stock and the same on coilovers. However, I have some amazing County roads here that are very well maintained. I can see these components being a fantastic addition for these roads and track.

[WC-BRZ]

Originally Posted by Tristor

They're surprisingly quiet given how solid it is. You will definitely hear them if you go over a good bump / dip / pothole, but generally they are quiet when flexing. On the down side, though, you will definitely feel a reduction in ride quality due to losing the play that was in the factory bushings. It's hard to put into words, but the best way I can think to to visualize it is that it's about the equivalent additional harshness of going 2-3 clicks stiffer on my dampers.

The flip side of all that, is when you find some good asphalt the car feels basically perfect. It's like driving a go kart, steering response is immediately with no slop, changes in road angle or going into a curve feels like it sets immediately and weight transfer occurs more quickly. It really feels great.

It's also a bit difficult for me to judge NVH in isolation because I've done so many other things to the car which affect NVH.

If you don't mind, are you able to provide an updated mod list of all your suspension components only?

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

If you don't mind, are you able to provide an updated mod list of all your suspension components only?

Sure, I'd be happy to. For future reference I keep my 1st post updated as well (except for the pictures... since I don't take many), so you can see what the current complete mod list is at any time.


Suspension Mods:

• RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers w/ 400/400 springs
• Vorshlag High Caster Camber Plates (Front)
• Vorshlag Spherical Shock Mounts (Rear)
• Whiteline KSR210 Steering Rack Bushings
• Whiteline KDT925 Differential Cradle Bushing Inserts
• Whiteline KDT922 Rear Subframe Bushing Inserts
• SPL Parts Rear LCA
• SPL Parts Rear Toe Arms w/ Eccentric Lockout
• SPL Parts Front Endlinks - Short
• SPL Parts Rear Endlinks
• SPL Parts Bumpsteer Adjustable Tie Rod Ends
• SPL Parts Rear Traction Arms
• SPL Parts Front LCAs

Also, since it affects NVH (and closely ties into the subframe/diff cradle changes above) I also have the following driveline modifications:

• STI JDM Engine Mounts
• STI JDM Transmission Mount
• Torque Solutions Driveshaft Center Bearing Solid Bushings

At this point, every single suspension component except the rear upper control arm has been replaced with the item from the SPL Parts catalog. SPL doesn't make a rear UCA, so that's why I still have the factory one. I am going to look for a Whiteline bushing kit or consider a Racer X rear UCA though to replace it.


As a side note, I have a bunch of OEM suspension arms with less than 1 year old Whiteline bushing upgrades already pre-installed I'm eventually going to try to sell

[new2subaru]

Amazing. I've done almost exactly the top half of your list and I'm working on doing the rest.

• Ohlins 4k 3k coilovers and springs (Changing rear to 4k this winter)
• Vorshlag High Caster Camber Plates (Front)
• Vorshlag Spherical Shock Mounts (Rear)
• Whiteline KSR210 Steering Rack Bushings (Adding these soon)
• Whiteline KDT925 Differential Cradle Bushing Inserts
• Whiteline KDT922 Rear Subframe Bushing Inserts
• SPL Parts Rear LCA