Help me choose between Tein Flex Z or HSD MonoPro ?

[Tim86UK]

Usage: DD, spirited mountain driving, occasional track

HSD: Main features: 16-stage damping adjustment, separate height and preload adjustment, camber adjustable pillowball front top mounts & rubber rear top mounts, anti-corrosive damper plating and rubber dust boots, 9kg/mm front springs, 7kg/mm rear springs.

Tein:
Adjustable: Yes
Camber Adjustable: Front Only
Caster Adjustable: No
Dampening Adjust Type: 16 Way
Damper Type: Twin Tube
Drop Height Front: 0-2.3in
Drop Height Front Metric: 0-58mm
Drop Height Rear: .4-3in
Drop Height Rear Metric: 10-76mm
Height Adjustable: Yes
Independent Height Adjustable: Yes
Spring Rate Front: 336lbs/in
Spring Rate Front Metric: 6Kg/mm
Spring Rate Rear: 336lbs/in
Spring Rate Rear Metric: 6Kg/mm
Top Hats Included: Yes

Noob questions:
Will i be able to adjust front and rear camber with these installed? I'm going with large rims so need to be sure.

Is there anything that the HSD's don't offer that the Tein do or vice-versa. Plus anything that i should know when deciding between these two sets?

Price is pretty much the same for both here in the UK.

Spring rates are higher up front on the HSD, thoughts?

I'm relatively new to this, so thoughts from you older/more experienced guys would be a huge help.

Thanks

[gramicci101]

Front camber: yes. Rear camber: no. Front camber adjustment is built into the front top mount. Rear camber adjustment is done by upper or lower control arms, purchased separately from the coilovers.

[VIP BRZ]

These will give your camber adjustment in the Front only, you'll need another solution for camber adjustment in the rear. Adjustable LCA's

i have a set of Flex z's

[Tim86UK]

Originally Posted by VIP BRZ

These will give your camber adjustment in the Front only, you'll need another solution for camber adjustment in the rear. Adjustable LCA's

i have a set of Flex z's

So i'll have to buy a set of lower control arms, more money

Anything i should know when choosing on a budget, or would pretty much any solution do the job?

Still hoping to hear opinion on difference in spring rates between the two, and anything else.

Thanks

[gramicci101]

SPC is cheap (relatively) and will do the job just fine. There are a number of billet aluminum choices that are super sexy and awesome, but they do the same job. I would want SPL or Velox, because I like shiny objects.


Depending on how much you want to lower, consider height-adjustable front swaybar endlinks.

[VIP BRZ]

You can go really low before you need the replace the swaybar endlinks with something adjustable, probably lower then ether of these coils will allow on those spring rates.

I have a set of PBM Lower control arms that i picked up because of the price mostly, also because they have an optional lower mounting point.

https://store.partsshopmax.com/shop/.../ZNC6RLCA.html

but i don't really have any input on what coil to go for, apples to apples. I'm fond of Tein

[MeisterR]

If you are in UK, MeisterR is another option for you.
Price under £800 delivered, and comes complete assembled out of the box.

Springs rate is a bit more sensible with front at 5kg/mm, rear 4kg/mm
These are design to be a good fast road setup with enough damping adjustment for occasional track day use.
Front top mount is spherical bearing with camber adjustments.
The rear top mount is rubber insulated press steel to reduce possible road noise.
32 stage damping adjustable mono-tube dampers (compression & rebound combined)
Of course, comes with 1-year warranty fully back up by MeisterR UK.

Here is a picture of the coilovers I snapped yesterday at our workshop.
The ZetaCRD you see is exactly what you will get when you open the box.



The 3-way remote canister is not included, that is our next project.
This was just a little preview for a few of our customers that are more interested in race suspension.

Just another option to have on the table for you to choose if you are interested.
Any questions, please feel free to let me know.

Jerrick

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Tim86UK

So i'll have to buy a set of lower control arms, more money

Anything i should know when choosing on a budget, or would pretty much any solution do the job?

Still hoping to hear opinion on difference in spring rates between the two, and anything else.

Thanks

Look up motion ratios for this car and how it affects spring rate/wheel rate. I wouldn't get the hsds or meisterRs on their choices on spring rate alone unless you want that type of setup. Nearly all springs/coilovers for this car have have softer fronts or equal rate, rarely softer rears.

[Tim86UK]

Originally Posted by MeisterR

If you are in UK, MeisterR is another option for you.
Price under £800 delivered, and comes complete assembled out of the box.

Jerrick

Thanks Jerrick,

Those are some nice looking coils!

Interesting to see that spring rate is on the lower end of the spectrum, with the likes of kw and tein being around 6k. Curious as to why they are designed this way?

Also i'm assuming that height is independently adjustable? i.e adjustment of ride height by adjusting the case length, without changing the damper stroke length and/or spring pre-load? Can you confirm?


Looks like i might have a third option

[Tim86UK]

Originally Posted by swarb

Look up motion ratios for this car and how it affects spring rate/wheel rate. I wouldn't get the hsds or meisterRs on their choices on spring rate alone unless you want that type of setup. Nearly all springs/coilovers for this car have have softer fronts or equal rate, rarely softer rears.

Thanks, looks like i have an entire evening of research ahead, unless an expert can chime in for us..

Given what you said about spring rates at front i might pass on the hsds.

[Tim86UK]

Originally Posted by VIP BRZ

You can go really low before you need the replace the swaybar endlinks with something adjustable, probably lower then ether of these coils will allow on those spring rates.

I'll be wanting to go flush with the curve of my arches on 18x9.5 square et35-40 and 245/35 all round, assuming that ill need those LCA's to tuck the rears in too. Not going any lower due to the roads here.

[gramicci101]

Many coilovers and aftermarket springs are stiffer in the front; I wouldn't necessarily base my decision on that. Read people's reviews to see what they say. For instance, Ohlins R&T is stiffer in the front. RCE and KW are square. Some of Swift's springs are actually stiffer in the rear.

Go through this thread; there's a lot of good info here.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45554

To fit 18x9.5, read this thread. Clearance in the front can get pretty tight.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41083

[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by Tim86UK

Thanks Jerrick,

Those are some nice looking coils!

Also i'm assuming that height is independently adjustable? i.e adjustment of ride height by adjusting the case length, without changing the damper stroke length and/or spring pre-load? Can you confirm?

Thank you, they are pretty looking aren't they.
The locking collars system on the coilovers are also unique to MeisterR, and is currently under UK patent pending status.

You are correct, the ride height is adjusted via the lower bracket.
So ride height do not change the damper stroke ratio / spring pre-load.

Originally Posted by Tim86UK

Interesting to see that spring rate is on the lower end of the spectrum, with the likes of kw and tein being around 6k. Curious as to why they are designed this way?

This get a little bit more technical.

The springs rate of the MeisterR ZetaCRD+ came out to 5/4 is because of vehicle dynamic calculation that we do.
Believe it or not, the 5/4 setup is actually on the "top end" of what we like to see on a "Fast Road" car.
If you look at the wheel frequency (the measurement of springs rate at the wheel if you will), the 5/4 setup is stiffer than what OEM Porsche put on their cars.

The reason that the rear is softer is because there are two condition we want to include when designing springs rate for fast road car.
1. We want the drive wheel to have the lower wheel frequency, so in this case the rear will be more stable at the limit.
2. We want to make sure that the front and rear wheel frequency have a "gap", so the suspension do not hit a "harmonic" frequency which is a bad thing.

On the GT86, when you are on the low end of springs rate like ours, 5/5 setup was a bit too close between the front and the rear so you could hit a harmonic frequency.
The choice was either 5/4, or 6/5 under our calculation.
So opted for the 5/4 in the end because it suit the need of a fast road & track car better.

We are also developing a more race focused setup, and that will run a 8/8 setup.
The reason for that is because as you get higher up in the springs rate, that "gap" between the front and rear grows wider.
At the 8/8 setting, the spring rate are still close, but the gap is wide enough that it is acceptable.
The rear is still softer than the front at the 8/8 setup, just like the 5/4 setup.

So we didn't pick the springs rate out of the sky, they were calculated and then back up by testing to ensure they are doing what the vehicle dynamic model say they will do.

Jerrick

[Tim86UK]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Go through this thread; there's a lot of good info here.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45554

To fit 18x9.5, read this thread. Clearance in the front can get pretty tight.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41083

Thanks, i've actually done a lot of looking into the clearance issues and have decided on being more sensible as a result. Going 18x8.5 with the same 245/35 tyres that i've ordered. Minus the stretch and extra camber equals more tyre on the road anyway.

Originally Posted by MeisterR

.....they were calculated and then back up by testing to ensure they are doing what the vehicle dynamic model say they will do.

Jerrick

I appreciate that..

I've also done some reading on the thread mentioned above and decided that with a softer spring rate being much more suited to the English roads it might just be the better option.

Also, being built in here in the UK is something that i'm most definitely comfortable with.