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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 04-02-2019, 12:58 PM   #1
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Wink 2017 86 Vs. 2019 Civic Si Coupe

My wife and I now have two somewhat impractical family cars. We used to have two really impractical cars (mazda rx7 and mx5). I can now give a somewhat decent impression of how these two cars stack up.

Our 17 86 is the "Special Edition", we bought it because we love wild paint jobs and this one had an orange paint that was even nicer (in our opinion) than our old Hot Lava. We have had it for a year and a half at the time of this post and it has been a great car, even nicer than our old Hot Lava FR-S. Mostly things that we enjoy are the changes to the final drive ratio and the suspension setup. The old FR-S seemed like it was geared more to hit 60 "faster" and the suspension was a bit too harsh. Sure there's still a torque dip, but we don't care, it's a fun engine to run out to its redline and it has all the power we enjoy in a manner that we enjoy driving it. The LSD is great and being RWD makes it a very predictable car in the winter for us, we even bought some winter tires to make it more fun.

In comparison, the new 19 Si Coupe we just bought about a month ago is a different type of animal, though fun in it's own right. We got it in the somewhat horrid Yellow Tonic Pearl, a color that I believe that is only liked by us. We love it, very easy to find... anywhere. The engine and the power delivery are totally different, being a turbo'ed 1.5, most of its power is setup around 3k and it kind of gives up right at 6k. Almost the opposite of a torque dip, kind of a torque hump. While not everyone enjoys FWD, it is much more enjoyable with a LSD. The car kind of grabs through turns instead of being pushed like the 86, once again being a kind of opposite to the 86. There is also a totally different type of balance here, no more 50:50 distribution, all of your weight is over the front wheels.

So for both having 205hp, being around the same curb weight, and both having polarizing looks (especially in bright colors). They are both very unique, fun, and engaging cars.

The Honda does get better gas mileage though... No idea how it pulls of 40+ mpg on the highway, but it does. But as someone who once drove around an rx7 as a daily... who cares about gas mileage??
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:16 PM   #2
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probably being a smaller displacement + turbo, and not driving in boost contributes to the higher mpgs
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:33 PM   #3
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probably being a smaller displacement + turbo, and not driving in boost contributes to the higher mpgs
Yeah, I get that, just wasn't expecting it. It's good for my wife since she drives it to work everyday.

I'd still pick the 86 over the Si if I had to choose one.
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Old 04-02-2019, 04:30 PM   #4
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probably being a smaller displacement + turbo, and not driving in boost contributes to the higher mpgs
its definitely how it works.

Low displacement engine + new technologies + modest driving (don't go heavy into boost) = great gas mileage.

Those Earth Dream motors are quite frugal. I had a Honda fit with the 1.5L N/A Earth Dreams motor, and I was getting high 30's/low 40's depending on how I drive.


But once you get that turbo working the MPG is going to nosedive.

I think that's why the FA20 boxer motor doesn't get great gas mileage. You don't really "cruise" at a low RPM on that motor, and all its power is high up so you're really working the engine a lot of the times. Plus boxers are inherently less fuel efficient to begin with than straight 4's as far as I know.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:42 PM   #5
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In your comparison you left out something important. That would be, how the cars look.

I feel like this was done intentionally
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:49 PM   #6
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I've been doing a lot of reading on the new Si recently. I think if I was in a position to get a new Si or a new BRZ, I'd go for the Si.




But I'm not, and I love my BRZ to death.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:29 PM   #7
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In your comparison you left out something important. That would be, how the cars look.

I feel like this was done intentionally
Oh, I just didn't want to be writing too much. But it's true, the Toyota 86 is much better looking in our opinion. The Honda isn't bad though, as a coupe. We didn't like the sedan very much, looks too large and seems too much like a family sedan. We really like the wrap around tail light and while polarizing, we find the overall funkiness of the Honda to be fun, especially as yellow.

One other thing that I didn't mention is their interiors. I would consider them equal but different. The seats in the Honda are surprisingly good! I still wish the 86 had a 60/40 split in the back so that we could put down half of the seat when my kid sits in the back.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #8
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I drove both before I got the frs. The 10th gen si is a nice car. Great handling. And the power band is nice for dd'ing. But is just me or does the si have a laggy throttle or dead spot? It made the car hard to rev match when I drove it. Also the engine is too quiet imo. Anyone who has driven an older vtec honda won't agree with the new engine, but man, the mpg is nice. Also turbo cause racecar lol. I definitely would consider an si and tuning it if I need a 4 door car in the future. Liked it more than the wrx honestly.
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:23 PM   #9
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You can thank emission ratings and the turbo for the throttle lag.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:42 PM   #10
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Darn environment
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:08 AM   #11
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One other thing that I didn't mention is their interiors. I would consider them equal but different. The seats in the Honda are surprisingly good! I still wish the 86 had a 60/40 split in the back so that we could put down half of the seat when my kid sits in the back.

Hey Xerexyz, how old is your child? I have a 7.5 yo who is 42" tall (yes, his parents were not blessed with exceptional height) and I'm just curious how doable/comfortable he will be back there on the occasion I need to haul him to practice, school, the store, the park, etc.

I am in the position to replace my 15yo (2 door) GTI with either the BRZ Limited PP OR a WRX Base/Premium.

Hands down, I want the BRZ. It is the closest thing to a Miata (which the wife says "No" to and it seems the closest thing to a motorcycle, which coincidentally, the wife also says "NO!!!" to despite me having one years ago.

The BRZ is that Miata/motorcycle engagement I want in a car that has 4 seats.

I also looked at the WRX Base/Premium and it seems to be a fine car. Easy to get in and out of with its four doors and higher seat height. Sure, it is faster and has AWD, but that does not automatically make it better, even though many would argue that point.

So, in your opinion, how doable is the BRZ with small children that only need a seat booster? Do you have any issues with ingress/egress into the back seat? Does your child "complain" about anything such as noise or can't see out of the window while riding in the back of the BRZ?

Thanks for you time on this. Cheers.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:32 AM   #12
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Hey Xerexyz, how old is your child? I have a 7.5 yo who is 42" tall (yes, his parents were not blessed with exceptional height) and I'm just curious how doable/comfortable he will be back there on the occasion I need to haul him to practice, school, the store, the park, etc.

I am in the position to replace my 15yo (2 door) GTI with either the BRZ Limited PP OR a WRX Base/Premium.

Hands down, I want the BRZ. It is the closest thing to a Miata (which the wife says "No" to and it seems the closest thing to a motorcycle, which coincidentally, the wife also says "NO!!!" to despite me having one years ago.

The BRZ is that Miata/motorcycle engagement I want in a car that has 4 seats.

I also looked at the WRX Base/Premium and it seems to be a fine car. Easy to get in and out of with its four doors and higher seat height. Sure, it is faster and has AWD, but that does not automatically make it better, even though many would argue that point.

So, in your opinion, how doable is the BRZ with small children that only need a seat booster? Do you have any issues with ingress/egress into the back seat? Does your child "complain" about anything such as noise or can't see out of the window while riding in the back of the BRZ?

Thanks for you time on this. Cheers.


I have 12 and 13 yo sons and they fit just fine and never complain. All they say is “dad do some drifting”. I also have a 2yo with rear facing seat that also fits back there. I’ve not had anyone back there with a booster though. My next door neighbor has a kid about the size of yours. I will throw a booster back there and have him jump in and get him to write up a review for you.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:00 PM   #13
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I have 12 and 13 yo sons and they fit just fine and never complain. All they say is “dad do some drifting”. I also have a 2yo with rear facing seat that also fits back there. I’ve not had anyone back there with a booster though.

My next door neighbor has a kid about the size of yours. I will throw a booster back there and have him jump in and get him to write up a review for you.
Thanks.

We've moving him out of his Britax full back booster seat into a bottom cushion one (soon) as the full back is approaching the headliner of our CX-5 and his legs are getting longer. Weight wise, he's got a ways to go before maxing out the seat (just hit 40 lbs this summer).

The biggest issue toward/against the BRZ doesn't come from me, but from other members of the family (namely the wife). My kid will ride in whatever we have as he has little to no say. I just want him to be comfortable. The WRX seemed "boomy", but I wasn't riding in the back.

When he does ride with me, I've got to get him in the back. I know the BRZ is not as easy as my GTI. The GTI has a one lever lift, move seat forward, move seat back and everything is back to where it was. The BRZ's driver seat, to my knowledge, does not return the the set position when you pull the cloth strap to move the seat. (I am wrong on this???)

When I test drive cars, I usually bring him with me or at least try to and move his seat into the test drive car. WRX and Crosstrek were easy to get him back there. (He's partial to the Sunshine Orange Crosstrek).

So far, I've only driven the BRZ by myself, no other passengers, so I am biased. Plus, that is how the BRZ will be used 350-360 days out the year.

I'm sure if all three of us take the BRZ for a test drive, the car will lose some of its flair. Plus I can see the wife now...smiling with that look, and teeth clenched. (In 2004, she voted down a VW R32 just because of the [body hugging] seats).

Again, thanks for your time.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:16 PM   #14
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I just LOVE the RWD with MT drive experience in FR-S more than a FWD car like the Honda. The Twins compare only to the Mazda compared to ANY other car it's weight/price/handling and power.


I did drive a Chrysler 300S and it was a huge vague and plush ride and after 2 months with that rental this summer, the Twin felt very cheap and weak lol. Took me a couple rides to remember why I love the Twins so much
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