More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoom1

Obviously they would update the engine, but the 2jz is a beast that make tons of power reliably. The bottom end stock will support 800 hp

The 2jz WAS a beast that made power reliably.
It is heavy, inefficient as far as mileage and emissions go and there is not a hope in hell it could pass even the most lax of the modern regulations. An update to meet the requirements would change everything and it would no longer be the engine of lore. The very robustness that allowed it to take the HP is what kills it for modern use.
It is a dinosaur that you will never see again.

[ZoomZoom1]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The 2jz WAS a beast that made power reliably.
It is heavy, inefficient as far as mileage and emissions go and there is not a hope in hell it could pass even the most lax of the modern regulations. An update to meet the requirements would change everything and it would no longer be the engine of lore. The very robustness that allowed it to take the HP is what kills it for modern use.
It is a dinosaur that you will never see again.

An the dream burns up in a fire ball... Any way they arn't gonna put a larger engine in the 86. It would be too much competition for that abomination they call a supra.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoom1

That is not a supra

The power you're looking for can be found in the Supra.

Anything with near 300hp or more would encroach heavily on Supra sales, and that is not the level or market the 86 serves.

The old iron block, pig 2JZ is dead, don't expect it to ever make a reappearance.

EDIT: I see you came to the same conclusion finally.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoom1

An the dream burns up in a fire ball... Any way they arn't gonna put a larger engine in the 86. It would be too much competition for that abomination they call a supra.

That is one reason yes. The other reason is they have always said since day one that it will be a "lower" powered NA engine. That was the target and they met it. The car was never designed nor built for the fast and furious wanttabe crowd and they are not going to change it for them. The 86 is as much an "abomination" as the Supra really and I doubt that they would ever compete since they will always be two totally different price points. If the performance and price margins get to close one or the other will just disappear.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is one reason yes. The other reason is they have always said since day one that it will be a "lower" powered NA engine. That was the target and they met it. The car was never designed nor built for the fast and furious wanttabe crowd and they are not going to change it for them. The 86 is as much an "abomination" as the Supra really and I doubt that they would ever compete since they will always be two totally different price points. If the performance and price margins get to close one or the other will just disappear.

It could be made to work. Look at the Corvette and Camaro, there are trim levels of the Camaro that step on the lower trim level Corvettes in terms of price and performance but they still manage to sell plenty of both. The trick is that the price/performance envelope has to have sections where it separates from the other option, in this case, the Camaro has the 2.0t/V6 variants on the low end where there is no Corvette and the Corvette Z06 and ZR1 at the high end where the Camaro can't compete but there is all the space inbetween where drivers can cross shop them depending on what is important to them.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

It could be made to work. Look at the Corvette and Camaro, there are trim levels of the Camaro that step on the lower trim level Corvettes in terms of price and performance but they still manage to sell plenty of both. The trick is that the price/performance envelope has to have sections where it separates from the other option, in this case, the Camaro has the 2.0t/V6 variants on the low end where there is no Corvette and the Corvette Z06 and ZR1 at the high end where the Camaro can't compete but there is all the space inbetween where drivers can cross shop them depending on what is important to them.

The Camaro/Corvette vs Supra/86 comparison is near apples to oranges.

For one, here in North America, the Corvette and Camaro have very distinct, separate and deep seated roots/history. One being Americas super/sports car the other being a pony car. Even during the crappy 90's the Fbody Camaro outsold the Supra 10:1 or more.
There's a huge market for both the Camaro and Corvette and really not many people cross shop them.

I doubt the same market and clear brand distinction exists for the Supra/86. Both of which recently found fame only in the 90's.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

The Camaro/Corvette vs Supra/86 comparison is near apples to oranges.

For one, here in North America, the Corvette and Camaro have very distinct, separate and deep seated roots/history. One being Americas super/sports car the other being a pony car. Even during the crappy 90's the Fbody Camaro outsold the Supra 10:1 or more.
There's a huge market for both the Camaro and Corvette and really not many people cross shop them.

I doubt the same market and clear brand distinction exists for the Supra/86. Both of which recently found fame only in the 90's.

This ^
The markets simply will not support overlapping Supras and 86s. It is not deep enough and there would not be enough difference in the two cars to warrant them both. If all Camaros were priced the same as Corvettes then we would see if both survived. The thing that keeps them both going is the differences in cost and performance. To get the same thing we would need to have 6 different versions of the 86 and Supra when they are hardly making two of each.

[ZoomZoom1]

Besides, in all honesty if you put say 400+ hp in the 86 it would just be too much hp for the car. Yes, i like the idea and toyed with the idea of swapping a 2JZ into it. But in the end it would be too much power to carve corners. It would just be a drag queen.

I think 300 hp is a good mark for the frs/86. It wont be gutless, but it also wont be over powered.

I'm gonna put a twin scroll turbo on mine and call it a day, with 290-300 hp as my goal.

[ZoomZoom1]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

The power you're looking for can be found in the Supra.

Anything with near 300hp or more would encroach heavily on Supra sales, and that is not the level or market the 86 serves.

The old iron block, pig 2JZ is dead, don't expect it to ever make a reappearance.

EDIT: I see you came to the same conclusion finally.

Yes, The reborn 2jz into the 86 is just a wild fantasy i have. You have to admit... it would be a bitching car, that would be great at going in straight lines really fast!

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

The Camaro/Corvette vs Supra/86 comparison is near apples to oranges.

For one, here in North America, the Corvette and Camaro have very distinct, separate and deep seated roots/history. One being Americas super/sports car the other being a pony car. Even during the crappy 90's the Fbody Camaro outsold the Supra 10:1 or more.
There's a huge market for both the Camaro and Corvette and really not many people cross shop them.

I doubt the same market and clear brand distinction exists for the Supra/86. Both of which recently found fame only in the 90's.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This ^
The markets simply will not support overlapping Supras and 86s. It is not deep enough and there would not be enough difference in the two cars to warrant them both. If all Camaros were priced the same as Corvettes then we would see if both survived. The thing that keeps them both going is the differences in cost and performance. To get the same thing we would need to have 6 different versions of the 86 and Supra when they are hardly making two of each.

Yes, I didn't consider that the Camaro and Corvette have economies of scale on their side to support the necessary number of trim levels and options to make the overlap work.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

Yes, I didn't consider that the Camaro and Corvette have economies of scale on their side to support the necessary number of trim levels and options to make the overlap work.

The Vette and Camaro don't really fill the same market segment as each other. So an overlap doesn't really do anything significant o each other.

Whereas an 86 and Supra can just be considered low end and high end versions of the same market segment so an overlap would cannibalize each other.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

Yes, I didn't consider that the Camaro and Corvette have economies of scale on their side to support the necessary number of trim levels and options to make the overlap work.

Yeah my point was less about the economies of scale and more about the fact they are not overlapping markets. Yes, technically speaking certain models overlap in terms of "outright performance" but the cars themselves are miles apart in terms of vehicle segments. The "general North American public" knows this fact and as such both can exist and maintain relatively large market shares.

None of this holds true for the 86/Supra, and whatever population is able to make the distinction, is not even a drop in the bucket compared to the size required to justify overlapping Toyota sports cars.

[evoto86]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Really really stupid. Why put an old, outdated, inefficient engine in a brand new car. It would be a piece of garbage.

An inline 4 would be much better suited to this platform than a 2jz.

Que the SR20DET, what the world needs is a dirty tractor sounding engine that can handle a lot of boost reliably, the Silvia crowd pray to God for this every day and Nissan does not listen to them. They keep giving us things we don't need nor care about, Honda did a cool thing and released the Turbo Vtec Type R we always wanted to bad its Ugly. When will Toyota and Nissan actually listen.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by evoto86

Que the SR20DET, what the world needs is a dirty tractor sounding engine that can handle a lot of boost reliably, the Silvia crowd pray to God for this every day and Nissan does not listen to them. They keep giving us things we don't need nor care about, Honda did a cool thing and released the Turbo Vtec Type R we always wanted to bad its Ugly. When will Toyota and Nissan actually listen.

They do listen......... to the checkbook.