Next Gen BRZ thoughts

[ElijahF]

Don't understand why people always talk about garbage like a turbo version, or a hatchback, or power this, power that, blah blah blah power. If that's what you're into then why are you here in the first place? If you want a turbo, then go buy a car with a turbo. Why don't you people just complain about turbos on a miata forum and leave us alone?

I feel like I have to talk shit about my own car just so I don't feel as bad when someone makes fun of its power figures. Nobody should have to do that.

[Broseph]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not sure what my post history has to do with it but since most of yours consists of "needs more power" I guess we will be at odds.

"up there" is not everywhere. They sell just fine in the rest of the world.
There are already plenty of options to increase power. Complaining that they are no good there and the rest of us should agree is not accurate. You want more power then buy one and add more power. Or just buy a Supra and be done with it.
Would love to see some supporting evidence that "anybody connected with SOA" says it is in trouble and needs massive help.

Admittedly, this is more a problem for high-altitude folks, less-so for the sea-level folks.
So, selfishly, yeah we'd all like more usable power up here. That's what you do up here when you want power - go FI. I'd prefer to have that from the factory. And while the M2Comp and Supra are great cars - driven both extensively, I'm trying to go a different direction this time with more of a more raw/mechanical experience vs a more luxury coupe.

Already have done the modded, tuned, catless, RWD 6MT BMW Twin Turbo Coupe thing. It was fun, I'd like something with a little less heft, bulk and mechanical complexity which I think is totally doable with a factory turbo'd BRZ.

[Broseph]

How is everyone here so convinced ToyBuru wouldn't put a tubro in the next Gen?


They may fall victim to the pressures of the bean counters - strangers things happen all the time..


And the Zupra is NOTHING close to a turbo version of the BRZ - one's a Bimmer, one's a Subaru. Nothing is remotely comparable as far as build or purpose.


One's on the luxury side with gobs of factory power, the other on the opposite side.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Broseph

How is everyone here so convinced ToyBuru wouldn't put a tubro in the next Gen?


They may fall victim to the pressures of the bean counters - strangers things happen all the time..


And the Zupra is NOTHING close to a turbo version of the BRZ - one's a Bimmer, one's a Subaru. Nothing is remotely comparable as far as build or purpose.


One's on the luxury side with gobs of factory power, the other on the opposite side.

The market it is intended for Most people buying these are in the market for a sporty, affordable commuter.

Ask yourself this. Why isn't there many other lightweight small displacement turbo 4 RWD cars? What is there? The Fiat 124 and the Alfa 4C, not the same market.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Broseph

How is everyone here so convinced ToyBuru wouldn't put a tubro in the next Gen?


They may fall victim to the pressures of the bean counters - strangers things happen all the time..


And the Zupra is NOTHING close to a turbo version of the BRZ - one's a Bimmer, one's a Subaru. Nothing is remotely comparable as far as build or purpose.


One's on the luxury side with gobs of factory power, the other on the opposite side.

Why?
Because they have very clearly and repeatedly said they won't.
Cost and performance would be equivalent to the Supra and they already have something in that segment.
They have to pass emissions and millage requirements internationally. I do not know how they wish to assign their fleet carbon credits but doubt they will use them up on a small production niche vehicle.
The first gen was designed and built to exactly what the public as a whole was asking for. If parts of the public don't like it then Toyota and Subaru just don't care. They have other cars for that group.

The build and purpose difference is EXACTLY why they will not bring the 86/BRZ up to the Supra standard and performance. Your statement pretty much sums up why they just won't do it.

If they fall to the "bean counters" it would be more probable that the car would just go away not be "upgraded". It will never turn a monitory profit and they know and accept that. It's purpose in the line up is not to make money but to attract people to the badge in hopes they will buy more of their bread and butter cars down the road.

If they did even half of the changes that some people want then the 86/BRZ will share only their name with the first gen. The resulting turbo, hatchback, sunroofed, two seater, luxtury interior, expensive, heavy, creature that would hit the market would then be panned by the same group that won't buy it now. It would follow the evolution of the Celica and end up being cut just the same way.

This is why what you after is just not likely to be in the cards no matter how many rumours the internet likes to start. .

[Payload]

This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����

[Lantanafrs2]

Lol

[Lantanafrs2]

Too busy gutting the interior of my forklift to get involved here.

[Broseph]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Cost and performance would be equivalent to the Supra and they already have something in that segment.

Not at all. The turbo-charged WRX comes in @$28K and has a far more complex and costly AWD drivetrain as well. A FA20DIT or FA24DIT swap wouldn’t be anywhere near the Zupra’s B58 engine. Also, the emissions thing has already been figured out. Those FADIT engines exist today.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If they did even half of the changes that some people want then the 86/BRZ will share only their name with the first gen. The resulting turbo, hatchback, sunroofed, two seater, luxtury interior, expensive, heavy, creature that would hit the market would then be panned by the same group that won't buy it now.

The only complaints I always hear are lack of torque.
They could easily make the power plant swap, and keep everything else nearly identical.
Why would they overbuild it into the heavy luxury category? I don’t know anybody that’s asking for that.
It’s net-new weight would obviously come from the supporting turbo hardware (FMIC etc) and beefed drivetrain/wider rear wheels. 200lbs? Maybe? I’d be perfectly fine with 3,000lbs.
I don’t see anybody begging for a sunroof - I certainly don’t want one and opt out every chance I get. My Limited Ascent doesn’t have one, thank goodness.
I don’t see anybody begging for a strict 2-seater either - I’d prefer the 2+2.
The car is perfect, other than the lack of torque.

I just don’t see a new naturally aspirated FA24 fully making the “more torque!” crowd fully satisfied. It would have to be an engineering marvel. Maybe that will be their direction. It would be a much better base to go aftermarket FI with I guess.

[KR-S]

How are ya GrantedTaken?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

How are ya GrantedTaken?

I was about to post the same thing !!! LMAO

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by Payload

This FA20 engine is capable of over 300 hp on just tuning the software via "openflash"or "ecu tek" without any force induction bolt-ons, I did some research with other forums discussed about this matter and just to make sure what I read was accurate I did some checks and checked out some numbers with an online fuel injector calculator, after using it myself I can provide some valid testimony to this subject matter myself.. The only the problem with a tune for this car minus any bolt- on force induction system is the torque rating.. Your not going to pick up extraordinary torque rates in the low rpm tech region say btwn 2,000-3,000rpm gauge until you get to about (X~>4,800)rpm or past it, the force induction has an advantage at high torque out-puts in the very low rpm region, that maybe the sole purpose of even using force induction. It's a waste of time of doing force induction just to say that your car can do 300+ hp because a stand alone tune will give the same power output in the higher rpm region of the techcometer..That's probably why Toyota reps took so long to even consider a turbo.. The power gains are solely in the users tunning capabilities for 300+ without using any force induction bolt-ons to the engine... Based on what I've noticed, force induction for a stock FA20 engine would only make sense if your trying to put on extra 200hp to the fly wheel or drag racing purposes.. Enjoy my friends����

You hear that Jackson Racing? Your kits are now officially obsolete. You heard it here folks.










/s

[86MLR]

LOL

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Broseph

How is everyone here so convinced ToyBuru wouldn't put a tubro in the next Gen?

Convinced is a strong word. Based on what they've said, and the fact it isn't entirely necessary I doubt they would.

Updated FA20 seems logical, Re-engineered FA24 seems logical, turbo'd FA16 seems odd, but possible, turbo'd FA20 or FA24 does not...all IMHO of course.