grip?

[pr086]

i've got the stock michelins on my car and i'm having a hard time making it misbehave. the only time they really slip is when they're cold and i'm starting from a stop, they'll slip a very little but not enough for the traction control to light up on the dash. the only time i've actually gotten the traction control to light up is purposely giving it a lot of gas in the middle of a U turn.

i'm just trying to experiment by purposely making it lose traction so i can be prepared incase it accidentally does and i'm not expecting it.

like for example if i'm pushing too hard on an off ramp, what kind of behavior can i expect from the car? will the rear start slipping slowly? or is it fast? the car has a suprising amount of grip compared to what people make it seem, it can take corners a lot faster than i'm used to in my old car without seeming like it's struggling at all.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by pr086

i've got the stock michelins on my car and i'm having a hard time making it misbehave. the only time they really slip is when they're cold and i'm starting from a stop, they'll slip a very little but not enough for the traction control to light up on the dash. the only time i've actually gotten the traction control to light up is purposely giving it a lot of gas in the middle of a U turn.

i'm just trying to experiment by purposely making it lose traction so i can be prepared incase it accidentally does and i'm not expecting it.

like for example if i'm pushing too hard on an off ramp, what kind of behavior can i expect from the car? will the rear start slipping slowly? or is it fast? the car has a suprising amount of grip compared to what people make it seem, it can take corners a lot faster than i'm used to in my old car without seeming like it's struggling at all.

I wouldnt go around pushing your new car to the limits on roads... I can point you toward plenty of threads where this wont end well.

Is your car a stick? Make sure you turn off all the nannies properly and head for a large private area that you can have fun in... rain will amplify this effect so watch it. The stockers are weak compared to more dedicated rubber.

[pr086]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I wouldnt go around pushing your new car to the limits on roads... I can point you toward plenty of threads where this wont end well.

Is your car a stick? Make sure you turn off all the nannies properly and head for a large private area that you can have fun in... rain will amplify this effect so watch it. The stockers are weak compared to more dedicated rubber.

oh i'm well aware of those threads, hence why i want to have a good understanding of how the car reacts to varying situations. i keep hearing about the lack of grip the car has, but i'm not experiencing that in my normal driving.

i'm sure if i took it to an empty parking lot and turned everying off i could get it to slide around. but i'm more interested in how it could potentially start losing grip in normal circumstances and what to watch for.

[FRiSson]

There are some good YouTube videos that explain oversteer, how to induce it, and how to correct for it. Do not practice on public roads, aside from being dangerous and illegal, it doesn't offer enough room to learn.

[MI FR-S]

Grip is subjective.
Coming from a Civic with awful all seasons, this car feels like it is glued to the road to me.

Automotive journalists who are used to high performance cars with serious rubber will label it as low grip.

[Shinji2787]

This stock tires on this car have exceptionally low grip compared to other stock tires on sports cars.

It depends on how much throttle you're applying for how quickly the rear will pop out. Way too much and it'll swing around pretty quick (like in any RWD car really...) and just enough and you'll be able to feel the rear subtly move into a slide.

Best bet is to just find a big old parking lot with 0.01% chance of running into something and just have at it, do donuts or try to slide around cones or something and learn it in a relatively safe environment.

[SubieNate]

I can get the Michelins to slide a bit int he back with the VSC Sport mode engaged and if I'm a bit extra agressive around corners on a twisty road. The TC cuts in and keeps things civil but it allows just enough fun for empty backroads in my opinion.

Most of the time though i try to drive smooooth.

Nathan

[pr086]

with everything on does the TC do anything even if the light isn't flashing? maybe thats why it seems so grippy.

but then again, i am coming from a FWD car with well worn out all seasons.

[wbradley]

Drifting on an offramp...that's just one of a thousand wasy to die young.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Shinji2787

This stock tires on this car have exceptionally low grip compared to other stock tires on sports cars.

It depends on how much throttle you're applying for how quickly the rear will pop out. Way too much and it'll swing around pretty quick (like in any RWD car really...)

Getting OFF the gas abruptly (or hitting the brakes) is what causes spins, MUCH more so than getting ON the gas.

More throttle generally induces understeer, particularly in a car with modest power/weight like the FR-S/BRZ.

Typical scenario 1: inexperienced driver gets the back end ever-so-slightly out of shape giving it a lot of throttle on a low-speed 1st gear turn, panics, abruptly LIFTS off the gas, back end comes around, spins in to the curb/ditch/what-have-you.

Typical scenario 2: inexperienced driver going around a higher-speed corner, abruptly gets on the gas, spooked by the initial understeer, abruptly lifts off the gas, spins into guardrail.

Repeat after me:
Getting ON the gas generally induces UNDERsteer.
Getting OFF the gas (or on the brakes) generally induces OVERsteer.

This is driving 101, folks.

[Ingen]

Well if you aren't out of the break-in yet, and haven't gone past 4000 rpms, you probably won't break it loose. You're going to need the power to do it, and that power lives up toward the loud end of the tach.

[JesseE]

Is this what you want to do?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by pr086

i'm sure if i took it to an empty parking lot and turned everying off i could get it to slide around. but i'm more interested in how it could potentially start losing grip in normal circumstances and what to watch for.

In normal circumstances, you shouldn't be losing grip. The only real danger to watch out for is lift-throttle oversteer, as ZDan pointed out in his post. Don't abruptly lift off the throttle in the middle of a turn.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Getting OFF the gas abruptly (or hitting the brakes) is what causes spins, MUCH more so than getting ON the gas.

More throttle generally induces understeer, particularly in a car with modest power/weight like the FR-S/BRZ.

Typical scenario 1: inexperienced driver gets the back end ever-so-slightly out of shape giving it a lot of throttle on a low-speed 1st gear turn, panics, abruptly LIFTS off the gas, back end comes around, spins in to the curb/ditch/what-have-you.

Typical scenario 2: inexperienced driver going around a higher-speed corner, abruptly gets on the gas, spooked by the initial understeer, abruptly lifts off the gas, spins into guardrail.

Repeat after me:
Getting ON the gas generally induces UNDERsteer.
Getting OFF the gas (or on the brakes) generally induces OVERsteer.

This is driving 101, folks.

Good post and this is generally true. But I've found it's relatively easy to break traction in the rear with power at the exit of a turn. At that point the fronts aren't working nearly as hard anymore but your car still has a decent amount of angular momentum so when you floor it you lower the amount of grip that's available in the rear to handle the turning force and you can get it a bit loose.

Lift throttle and braking induced oversteer is most common at the entry/midpoint of a turn correct?

Cheers
Nathan