Organic clutch?

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by phloozy

Why do people feel the need to take things to PM? There are other interested parties.

You can feel free to PM me too. I just don't want to clutter up the OPs thread with this back and forth stuff. It can get old pretty fast.

I stayed past experience and I'll be going with it again. Was my past experience with the same platform, no it wasn't. However, I've used the company and feel confident in their quality.

I've used clutches rated for 400 ft-lbs from the manufacturer and failed with 280 ft-lbs, it happens. Opinions are opinions and facts are facts, well I guess until it fails within the power limits of what the manufacturer claimed it could hold, then it isn't a fact but a mythical unicorn sprinkling fairy dust.

We'll never unanimously agree on anything but that's how it is, nothing else to add.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4

[phloozy]

Originally Posted by King Tut

There was nothing big in the PM. Here are the cliffs:

ecko04 will be using the Exedy Organic Clutch
ecko04 has used one on his previous two non BRZ/FR-S forced induction builds with success
ecko04's shop of choice recommends the Exedy Organic Clutch
ecko04's OPINION is that the Exedy Organic Clutch can hold much more torque than the 203 ft-lbs it is rated to hold by Exedy themselves
King Tut expressed to ecko04 that he is stating an opinion and not a fact

Thanks I would not recommend going over the factory limits no matter what any shop told me though. I just wouldnt feel comfortable

[Mrc@ptuning]

We carry the Exedy Stage 1, Stage 2 as well as the Exedy Twin Disc setup, if someone needs a bit more grip

I don't believe any of the clutch manufacturers (Exedy, Clutchmasters, ACT, etc) that we carry or that manufacturers a single-disc clutch setup for the FR-S/BRZ, list their clutch holding capacticy at or over 300FT/TQ at the wheels. I believe the posted TQ holding capacity for these mfr are rated as "Clutch Torque" and not TQ at the wheels. But that's not to say that a "clutch torque" rating of 300, could not handle a car with 300ft/tq at the wheels.

MrC

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

We carry the Exedy Stage 1, Stage 2 as well as the Exedy Twin Disc setup, if someone needs a bit more grip

I don't believe any of the clutch manufacturers (Exedy, Clutchmasters, ACT, etc) that we carry or that manufacturers a single-disc clutch setup for the FR-S/BRZ, list their clutch holding capacticy at or over 300FT/TQ at the wheels. I believe the posted TQ holding capacity for these mfr are rated as "Clutch Torque" and not TQ at the wheels. But that's not to say that a "clutch torque" rating of 300, could not handle a car with 300ft/tq at the wheels.

MrC

So what is the difference between "Clutch Torque" and WTQ/FWTQ? Why would exedy rate their clutch at 203 WTQ/ 254 FWTQ, but it can hold 300? Wouldn't it be better for sales if they wrote a number closer to what it actually holds?

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

We carry the Exedy Stage 1, Stage 2 as well as the Exedy Twin Disc setup, if someone needs a bit more grip

I don't believe any of the clutch manufacturers (Exedy, Clutchmasters, ACT, etc) that we carry or that manufacturers a single-disc clutch setup for the FR-S/BRZ, list their clutch holding capacticy at or over 300FT/TQ at the wheels. I believe the posted TQ holding capacity for these mfr are rated as "Clutch Torque" and not TQ at the wheels. But that's not to say that a "clutch torque" rating of 300, could not handle a car with 300ft/tq at the wheels.

MrC

Oh really? Please enlighten us.

I would hate for anymore fact vs. opinion posts to be thrown around.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

But that's not to say that a "clutch torque" rating of 300, could not handle a car with 300ft/tq at the wheels.

This is an interesting way to state that. What is that to say then?

[Mrc@ptuning]

Originally Posted by ecko04

Oh really? Please enlighten us.

I would hate for anymore fact vs. opinion posts to be thrown around.

Originally Posted by King Tut

This is an interesting way to state that. What is that to say then?

What i'm trying to say is that most of the tq holding capacity are calculated off the clutch torque numbers--don't know the method or measurment instrument use to come up with that number-i'm sure each mfg has their own way of calculating this. As far as the tq holding capacity at the wheel, from my understanding with talking to some of the mfg, it's a calculated #. ie, they did not build a clutch, through it on the car, run it on a chassis dyno and keep cranking up the power until the clutch slips and use that to publish the TQ at the wheel capacity.

The fact that the exedy stage 1, in my personal car holds 300ft/tq at the wheel (dyno dynamics) without slipping and can break traction in first, second, chirp 3rd gear without slipping, tells me that the clutch can handle the 300ftp/tq. Now does that mean the clutch should be rated for 300ft/tq at the wheel by the mfg instead of the 200+ WTQ...probably not, it's better to be on the conservative side and not have to deal with warranty issues. Will the stage 1 hold 300wtq with constant abuse for 30K miles, maybe, maybe not. I can only say from personal experience on the clutch that is in my car.

If you are shopping for single-disc clutch for the fr-s/brz with mfg rating of 300TQ @ wheels that's going to be a hard find. If one exist, i doubt the pressure plate spring and disc is going to be "soft" enough to use on the street, instead it will be more of an on/off switch--not something you want to get stuck in traffic with

The ideal way to shop for a clutch is from feedback from those that has the exact clutch you are interested in, or better yet be able to drive the car with that clutch setup and make up your own opinion on which clutch to use. Like i mentioned, if there was a single-disc clutch out there for the frs that's "published" to hold 300+ ft/tq @ wheel with stock-like pedal feel and does not chatter and easy to daily drive on the street, it would be on my car already. For now, the exedy stage 1 works for me.

MrC

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

What i'm trying to say is that most of the tq holding capacity are calculated off the clutch torque numbers--don't know the method or measurment instrument use to come up with that number-i'm sure each mfg has their own way of calculating this. As far as the tq holding capacity at the wheel, from my understanding with talking to some of the mfg, it's a calculated #. ie, they did not build a clutch, through it on the car, run it on a chassis dyno and keep cranking up the power until the clutch slips and use that to publish the TQ at the wheel capacity.

The fact that the exedy stage 1, in my personal car holds 300ft/tq at the wheel (dyno dynamics) without slipping and can break traction in first, second, chirp 3rd gear without slipping, tells me that the clutch can handle the 300ftp/tq. Now does that mean the clutch should be rated for 300ft/tq at the wheel by the mfg instead of the 200+ WTQ...probably not, it's better to be on the conservative side and not have to deal with warranty issues. Will the stage 1 hold 300wtq with constant abuse for 30K miles, maybe, maybe not. I can only say from personal experience on the clutch that is in my car.

If you are shopping for single-disc clutch for the fr-s/brz with mfg rating of 300TQ @ wheels that's going to be a hard find. If one exist, i doubt the pressure plate spring and disc is going to be "soft" enough to use on the street, instead it will be more of an on/off switch--not something you want to get stuck in traffic with

The ideal way to shop for a clutch is from feedback from those that has the exact clutch you are interested in, or better yet be able to drive the car with that clutch setup and make up your own opinion on which clutch to use. Like i mentioned, if there was a single-disc clutch out there for the frs that's "published" to hold 300+ ft/tq @ wheel with stock-like pedal feel and does not chatter and easy to daily drive on the street, it would be on my car already. For now, the exedy stage 1 works for me.

MrC

Fair enough.

[diss7]

I've found that its a real American thing to quote/compare clutches by rating them by torque capacity.

There are other things at play. The way that power comes on, for example a turbo that has a rapid surge in torque is very hard on the clutch. So are big heavy wheels and tyres.

Stop over analysing specs and marketing crap. Go talk to people that sell the stuff and ask them. They will know more about a product than the info you can find.

Take my example. Fitted twin screw kit the other day, OEM clutch holding, but am worries it might not on track. Took car into to clutch wholesaler yesterday, explained what I wanted, took car for drive, said I want it to take drift abuse, but its primarily a street car.

He said exedy stage 1. And was so confident it would be fine, he said he'll warrant that it'll be suitable, because if it turns out its not, it's now got a benchmark for that kit on this platform, that he can then use to advise future customers on their application.

Our kit here maybe different to the US spec. I'll put up part numbers and pics tomorrow.

[nix]

You should also talk to people who run them in their cars not just sell them.

You are right torque delivery on a sprintex is totally different & much safer to a clutch than a small turbo.

But an organic disc no matter the brand has a specific temperature ceiling above which it will fail.

After killing 2 different ones I wouldn't feel safe with any clutch kicks, dumps or long track days on them just my 2c!

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by nix

You should also talk to people who run them in their cars not just sell them.

You are right torque delivery on a sprintex is totally different & much safer to a clutch than a small turbo.

But an organic disc no matter the brand has a specific temperature ceiling above which it will fail.

After killing 2 different ones I wouldn't feel safe with any clutch kicks, dumps or long track days on them just my 2c!

True and VERY important

[DAMotorsports]

You do know that your stock clutch is a Exedy right

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

You do know that your stock clutch is a Exedy right

like most japanese manufacturers

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

You do know that your stock clutch is a Exedy right

I do because I installed my ACT 6 puck myself. Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with Exedy clutches, we are just debating whether the Stage 1 is the correct clutch choice for a 300 whp and 250 ft-lb car.