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Old 01-14-2014, 11:52 AM   #1
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Supercharger Comparison: Innovate, Jackson, Kraftwerks, Vortech *Updated March 9 2014

I take no credit for these; all data compiled by @tendogy

http://imgur.com/a/F4D7w
Quote:
HP&TQ Curves of all Superchargers
Anytime someone asks "which supercharger is right for me?" in the forums, they are told "lol use search noob." If you search and find the power output of the different options, you get this jumbled mess.


HP Curves of all Superchargers
Here you can see just the HP curves. I tried to find the most comparable dynos I could. These are all dynojet dynos on 91 or 92 octane. The biggest variable is how many catalytic converters are left in the system.


TQ Curves of all Superchargers
Here you can see just the TQ curves. Peak numbers are great, but what about the area under the curve? You don't want a system that makes peak power for 1 second right before you downshift, you want a system that makes power throughout the rev range!


Area-Under-Curve of Stock FR-S
Here is a plot of the stock FR-S. You can see that I split the rev range into 500rpm segments and calculated the HP & TQ area for each segment. The scaling factor is irrelevant because the numbers are used for comparison only.


Area-Under-Curve for Jackson
$3995 for this kit. All dynos here are custom-tuned. The Jackson kit uses a Rotrex supercharger which claims to make more low-end power than Vortech. We'll see if that's true!


Area-Under-Curve for Kraftwerks
$4295 for this kit. This uses the same blower as the Jackson kit. These 2 cars were actually tuned by the same guy with the same gas with the same blower on the same dyno, so the difference in power between the two is probably because the Jackson car had zero catalytic converters and the Kraftwerks car had two.


Area-Under-Curve for Vortech
$4298 for this kit. Incredibly linear power delivery, peaking at the very top of the rev range.


Area-Under-Curve for Innovate Intercooled
$4195 for this kit. That torque curve is more like a torque table, it's so flat! Power delivery is very linear again, but peaks pretty low.


Area-Under-Curve for Innovate
$3195 for this kit. This kit has this price point all to itself, so I almost didn't include it, but a lot of people buy this to upgrade it. Upgrading makes the full kit cost $4395, making it the most expensive option.


Innovate/Innovate Intercooled Dyno
Here is a plot comparing the base Innovate kit to the intercooled kit. It definitely makes more power, but not much more until it gets over 7000 RPM. Worth $1200+retune? That's up to you.


Jackson/Innovate Dyno
I was surprised to see the Rotrex hang with the Innovate at low-end TQ, since that is the strength of the Innovate blower. It's game-over after 4000 RPM though, with a huge 50-65HP gain at the top.


Jackson/Innovate Intercooled Dyno
The intercooled Innovate kit finally makes an appearance! It makes better power than the Jackson Rotrex until 4250 RPM then the Jackson takes off. The intercooler keeps the Innovate from losing power at the very top, but it still gives up nearly 50 hp to the Jackson.


Kraftwerks/Innovate Dyno
Once again the Rotrex hangs just fine with the innovate at the low-end TQ. You can see the Kraftwerks car has vestiges of the stock torque dip since it retains the stock header. Same story though, as it makes huge gains at the top over the Innovate kit.


Vortech/Innovate Dyno
The curves are nearly identical until 5000 RPM where the Vortech finally breaks away for big gains up top.


Jackson/Kraftwerks Dyno
Here are the two Rotrex kits together. Ultimately you gain 15-25HP for after 6750 RPM if you replace the header/exhaust on a Rotrex kit. That is a lot of money for not a lot of increase, if you ask me.


Jackson/Innovate Intercooled Dyno
The intercooled Innovate kit finally makes an appearance! It makes better power than the Jackson Rotrex until 4250 RPM then the Jackson takes off. The intercooler keeps the Innovate from losing power at the very top, but it still gives up nearly 50 hp to the Jackson.


Jackson/Vortech Dyno
At last we can see if a Rotrex blower really does make better low-end power than the Vortech, and the answer is NO. The two kits make identical power until 4250 RPM. Jackson wins from 4250-7000 RPM when the Vortech finally overtakes it.


Kraftwerks/Innovate Intercooled Dyno
Once again the intercooled Innovate makes better low-end power than the Kraftwerks car, but can't keep up at the top.


Kraftwerks/Vortech Dyno
Again the Rotrex and Vortech go back and forth all the way up the powerband. Which is "better"? It's really hard to tell from this plot. Further analytics were necessary.


Vortech/Innovate Intercooled Dyno
The Intercooled Innovate makes more power down low, then less power up high. If there is a stereotypical twin-screw vs centrifugal plot, this is it.



Area-Under-Curve Percentage HP Increase over Stock
Remember the area-under-curve horsepower calculations? They are compared here.

How do you read it? "The HP area-under-curve for the Intercooled Innovate is 25% greater than stock from 2500-3000 RPM." and "The area-under-curve for Vortech is ~60% greater than stock from 6000-6500 RPM.


Area-Under-Curve Percentage TQ Increase over Stock
This is the same thing, but for Torque numbers. It's virtually identical! What do these tell us?

The Innovate Intercooled enjoys a 10-20% domination, but only until 4000 RPM. The regular Innovate can keep pace until 4000 RPM, but then falls off doing 50% worse than centrifugal kits.

These charts also make it clear that the Vortech's powerband is 5-15% inferior to the Rotrex powerbands from 4000-7000 RPM.


Area-Under-Curve HP Over Rev Range
What if you add up all the area-under-curve HP numbers for each segment? You get this chart. This demonstrates that 10% better at the low end and 10% worse at the high end means that you will win a top-to-bottom race every time. The Intercooled Innovate kit is neck-and-neck with the Kraftwerks kit until 6000 RPM, but it just can't keep up afterwards.


Area-Under-Curve TQ Over Rev Range
Here is the same chart, but for TQ numbers.

Everybody has different goals and different budgets, but hopefully now we can have a little more knowledge of the powerband characteristics of each supercharger system.

The Vortech kit makes very linear power, but peaks at the very end. When you downshift you go all the way back down to 200 hp and have to climb the power mountain again. I'm not a big fan of that.

The Kraftwerks and Jackson kits use the same blower, so I tend to lump their powerbands together. I like that when you downshift at redline, you're still making 225hp. I also like that you don't have to push the engine all the way to 7400 RPM to make peak power.

The Innovate kit is an odd duck. On the one hand, the base kit can keep up with the big boys at the low end, and still makes fun power up top. Still, it's only a 33% power increase up top, so you will probably start eyeing that intercooler. What then?

If you buy an intercooler upgrade, you now have the most expensive supercharger there is while making the least amount of total power. It makes great power down low, but to take real advantage of this you have to seriously upgrade your tires which is even more expensive.

Buying the intercooler kit from the get-go makes a lot more sense. I can see some people valuing the ease-of-installation enough to take this route, but for my money the Vortech and Rotrex powerbands are too attractive at this price point to pass up.

This examination obviously did not compare ease-of-installation, customer service, maintenance, longevity, or any other number of factors at play. This looked specifically at powerband characteristics to help people see through the marketing and the hype when choosing where to spend their thousands of dollars.

*edit*

Source dynos:

Innovate Intercooled
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=1


Innovate 70mm pulley, non-intercooled
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1914


Kraftwerks
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...89&postcount=1


Jackson Racing
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=53


Vortech
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=15



***UPDATE***

Quote:
Originally Posted by tendogy
To improve this supercharger comparison I recently read through the Innovate and Kraftwerks owners threads, as well as the Vortech and Jackson Racing discussion threads. I aimed to compile all the owner-reported issues to try to gain some understanding into a few questions. The following chart shows the number of owner-reported issues-per-month from those threads as of March 2014.



The compilation data and more links are in the following posts:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=202

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=212

Last edited by CSG Mike; 03-09-2014 at 10:41 PM. Reason: added sources
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:58 AM   #2
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Obviously this is good stuff, but who made it? Does it have the tuner info listed for each?
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:04 PM   #3
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Even happier now I went with Jackson!!!
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Obviously this is good stuff, but who made it? Does it have the tuner info listed for each?
"tendogy" on Reddit.

The Rotrex graphs are Drift Office's graphs. I'm not sure on the source for the rest.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:08 PM   #5
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Would be interesting to see a smaller pulley on the vortech as it has the headroom to spin a bit faster, but can't complain as this is currently the best SC vs SC comparison as far as power goes.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:09 PM   #6
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"tendogy" on Reddit.

The Rotrex graphs are Drift Office's graphs. I'm not sure on the source for the rest.
Ah, so not the same dyno?
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:13 PM   #7
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Ah, so not the same dyno?
They're all Dynojets
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:14 PM   #8
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Would be interesting to see a smaller pulley on the vortech as it has the headroom to spin a bit faster, but can't complain as this is currently the best SC vs SC comparison as far as power goes.
With that reasoning, every kit here has headroom to be spun faster. IMO, this is the best "out of the box with tune" comparison. Each setup is running a custom tune to maximize the potential of the given setup.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:16 PM   #9
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as with anything, I'd take this with a grain of salt as it's comparing everything from cars with stock exhaust/cats to cars with full exhaust/no cats, catbacks, etc. I can only assume based on the variances in modifications on the cars, that there were also different dynos used as well (Even if they're all on dynojets, were they all on the same dynojet? I've seen numbers vary as much as 10hp on the same day between two different dynojets on the same car)
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:26 PM   #10
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It is good to see this comparison, even with non-identical cars you have a good idea of what to expect from each kit. Another great comparison would be a summary of the additional weight of each kit. I have seen numbers for the Innovate kits but not the others.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
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With that reasoning, every kit here has headroom to be spun faster. IMO, this is the best "out of the box with tune" comparison. Each setup is running a custom tune to maximize the potential of the given setup.
Thats why I said it would be "nice", just how it would be nice if they were all the same physical dyno, ambient conditions etc.

The pulley swap is also popular with the vortech crowd, so it would be nice if it was on there... thats all I'm saying

My opinion may be biased though lol
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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Really interesting seeing all the superchargers compared like this. At first I was going to say it's unfair putting the JRSC in there with full catless exhaust, but it looks like there's not much difference between its results and (the similar unit) Kraftwerks SC with 2 cats and CBE. Not sure what to make of that.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:31 PM   #13
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I've managed to get into contact with the individual who created these graphs. He did it as part of his research for his own purchase. I'll have the source dynos soon.

All in all, it's just data. I'm just trying to make sure the data is as complete as I can get it, as it's pretty difficult to get 5 different setups on the same dyno, same day, same conditions, unless you have a testing cell.... (Hmmmm Honda Racing/Honda Performance Development, can I call in a favor? I promise not to do bad things with the V6 S2000 [S3700?] while you guys are testing...)
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:34 PM   #14
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That intercooled innovate plot is from innovate itself so it is a canned tune.

As with all dyno comparisons you have to take it with a grain of salt but all in all this is a very comprehensive look at the power/torque characteristics of each kit. If I was to do supercharging over again I would definitely go with one of the rotrex kits.
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