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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 05-01-2017, 01:14 PM   #15
UFO
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Originally Posted by swarb View Post
What turn numbers are they called in the video?
So I can look at the line you take before entering the corners.

Guess would be to add more camber in the front for more turn in grip(I see lots of people at -3 up front) and less rear toe in(or close to zero) for more rotation.
What are your alignment settings?
And an adjustable rear sway bar would also help with some rotation. This car does understeer with equal spring rates front and rear. Some people say the car is oversteer prone, but I disagree, they usually have harsh steering inputs and a heavy foot. The camber gain from macpherson strut isn't ideal under compression so the car needs a lot of camber up front.
They are turns 7 & 12. -2.3 up front, I think -1.8 in the back and 0 toe all around. I currently have no way of going to -3 camber, I guess camber plates are next on my shopping list. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
My suggestion is more camber up front, in my experience the car was happier up at about -3 to -3.2 degrees camber on stock suspension than the -2.5 I started out with after getting camber plates, I'm even higher now but on autocross oriented coilovers.

imo changing other things and buying other parts doesn't make much sense if your tires aren't pointed in the optimal direction, you're just band-aiding the fact that you're not using all of the tire available. Getting tire temperatures will help point you in the right direction but it isn't foolproof and ultimately experimentation will get you where you need to go.
Thanks, I'm researching camber plates now, what did you run with stock suspension? I was looking at Vorshlag but it looks like they don't have a spring perch for stock applications.
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:46 PM   #17
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Thanks, I'm researching camber plates now, what did you run with stock suspension? I was looking at Vorshlag but it looks like they don't have a spring perch for stock applications.
It's pricey but Raceseng, I spent the extra money because I understood how it was designed and for a reasonable price I could adapt it to any coilover setup I would end up choosing (cheaper in the long run). As a bonus it had almost zero impact to NVH, I still daily on those after 2+ years (currently on custom Bilstein B14's) and almost no problems provided all the hardware is properly secured.

There's also Velox and Racecomp for much cheaper off the top of my head, but I think Racecomp has been out of stock for like a year+

Some googling comes up with a few others, Beatrush, HVT, Hotchkiss, Project Silver, etc.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113260

And if you want to do it on a budget you may be able to get more camber out of another pair of bolts depending on your current setup. Seems like you have crash bolts in top hole, so the 14mm SPC bolt in the bottom hole may bump up a noticeable enough.
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ineedyourdiddly

Last edited by strat61caster; 05-01-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:36 PM   #18
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First corner is a pretty big lift (no brakes) and mid corner my power steering goes completely dead for a split second and the steering gets super heavy.
That's not the PS dying. That's just how T7 is. When you bottom out on the banking it puts a lot of extra load on the car and steering. You can use that to your advantage and briefly give it more steering input during that moment of extra downforce.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:47 PM   #19
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There is a known power steering issue with these cars actually, under high load it will suddenly cut out on you (have experienced it more than once). There was a software fix for MkII (2017+) to fix it.

OP, for the first turn you mentioned you are ~1.0g and the next turn (slightly slower) you were 1.1g. Obviously taking some liberties with the data since there are longitudinal and lateral components present, but I didn't think you left much on the table for this turn.

For the second turn you were 0.9g, so IMO leaving something on the table there. But I saw elsewhere on the video evidence of the push you described, so I understand where you're coming from.

If I have one piece of advice, it would be to work on your throttle modulation. It's tough for me to judge what you're doing with the throttle currently (more data might help here!) but it may be that you are mashing the gas and overpowering the fronts when a little smoother roll-on might let you find the edge a little better - especially given your background of high HP turbo AWD cars, they reward "stomp and steer" behavior. No, we don't have a lot of horsepower, but if WOT makes you push too much try to find something less than WOT that puts power down without pushing you off line.

That said, IMO you're right about the point where the car's behavior is starting to hold you back. A setup change to increase your confidence when going to the right pedal is going to make you faster. What parts you buy depends on how serious you want to take this, but you could use more spring and an adjustable shock. Sounds like a full coilover setup is in order.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:42 PM   #20
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That's not the PS dying. That's just how T7 is. When you bottom out on the banking it puts a lot of extra load on the car and steering. You can use that to your advantage and briefly give it more steering input during that moment of extra downforce.
It doesn't feel like extra load but with my limited experience I won't argue. Are you flat through T7? If so, can you share your suspension setup?
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:49 PM   #21
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Chiming in on PS cutout at inopportune times. It's not uncommon for me during autocross events under high-g cornering with a good bit of steering input.

Also second the recommendation to find more negative camber, and consider coilovers and more spring. Potentially a lot more...
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #22
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There is a known power steering issue with these cars actually, under high load it will suddenly cut out on you (have experienced it more than once). There was a software fix for MkII (2017+) to fix it.

OP, for the first turn you mentioned you are ~1.0g and the next turn (slightly slower) you were 1.1g. Obviously taking some liberties with the data since there are longitudinal and lateral components present, but I didn't think you left much on the table for this turn.

For the second turn you were 0.9g, so IMO leaving something on the table there. But I saw elsewhere on the video evidence of the push you described, so I understand where you're coming from.

If I have one piece of advice, it would be to work on your throttle modulation. It's tough for me to judge what you're doing with the throttle currently (more data might help here!) but it may be that you are mashing the gas and overpowering the fronts when a little smoother roll-on might let you find the edge a little better - especially given your background of high HP turbo AWD cars, they reward "stomp and steer" behavior. No, we don't have a lot of horsepower, but if WOT makes you push too much try to find something less than WOT that puts power down without pushing you off line.

That said, IMO you're right about the point where the car's behavior is starting to hold you back. A setup change to increase your confidence when going to the right pedal is going to make you faster. What parts you buy depends on how serious you want to take this, but you could use more spring and an adjustable shock. Sounds like a full coilover setup is in order.
You are 100% correct with the throttle modulation, every instructor I have had has questioned why I'm on/off the throttle so much and it's because with the AWD cars I would use it to rotate the car, or simply to correct my mistakes. Not much use with the Scion . I'm working on it.

I have on order front caster/camber plates and rear adjustable LCAs to give me a better alignment. I'm going to see how that works for me before heading to coilovers but I think you're right and they're probably in my future.

Thanks a bunch for the reply, people like you make this community awesome .
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:45 AM   #23
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I'll add to this:

You can't throw money at a car and expect to never have to lift for a turn.

There is a point where you are just taking the corner too fast, and the solution is to drive better, not throw more money at the car.

I'm not saying this is you, as we don't have nearly enough info to find the exact issue here, but get more seat time in your setup and you'll learn the car and what it needs more. If you try to buy parts every time you go out, you'll never really know what the car is doing, and each time you'll be adjusting your driving to suit the fresh setup instead of learning the car more and becoming a better driver.

If you keep modding away your problems, you won't grow as a driver until you run out of money and then HAVE to just learn to drive quickly on your final setup.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by UFO View Post
It doesn't feel like extra load but with my limited experience I won't argue. Are you flat through T7? If so, can you share your suspension setup?
No, I'm still too chicken to do it flat. I lift a bit and go through around 90mph.

Suspension is RCE T2s, Raceceng cascam, maxxis vr1 255/40/17

Camber -3ish front -1.8r
Toe 0f 0.2r
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