JO2 RECALL - ENGINE FAILURE

[Russell86]

Werribee

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by ermax

First off you can see they used the wrong sealant on the timing cover. The instructions are very clear that it’s mandatory to use Threebond 1217H which is gray not black. If they ignored that part of the instructions then what else was ignored.
]

I have contacted Toyota Oz re this sealant matter previously and there is NO requirement for cars here to use the grey sealant despite the Threebond
shit actually being made in his country I believe. It apparently comes in the recall kit from Toyota.

All my receipt says is Seal packing Black FIPG. Part No is 0882680080

If anyone in Oz has the Aust specific details of what must or what must NOT be used post it because the people I dealt with at Toyota HQ were f**k'n useless and had no idea!

So far my car's done 600k's and is actually running, have no idea why, better then pre recall. I have an Oil Pressure gauge and so far oil pressure are exactly what they were pre recall..

Having written the above I contacted Toyota again and I will be calling my Service Manager to ascertain EXACTLY, if I can, WHAT the specified sealant is for AU delivered cars and If it was used in my recall. Perhaps climate difference dictates if the sealant is grey or black.

I have a vested interest in finding out because in less than three weeks and after doing 1000k's I have my car booked in for a Harrop install!!

This just gets curiouser and curiouser. Managed to take a pick of some of the sealant used and despite the invoice saying black it does appear that the grey was used. When I've worked out how to load a pic on this site now I'll post it up.

Here's link. Hopefully it works. Perhaps someone else who has a pic can compared amount of sealant used.. Looks to be plenty there. On the oustside anyway.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wF...w2774-h2080-no

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by David242gt

The recall service was done at 85,908klms, with less than 250klms done after the recall service

Given you have that pic of black sealant being used I think you have a very good case. Perhaps the ACCC would be worth a call, if Toyota jack you up, which you know they will as a matter or course! All parts and Labor performed in this country MUST carry a warranty. I think 3 months for Labor and 12 months for NEW parts.

There's a very good youtube of a german Subaru engine builder and I've noticed in every WRX engine rebuild he's done, that he ONLY uses Threebond grey sealant to join cases and fit oil pans, and very little of it.. Can't remember if he uses the stuff on timing covers because WRX engines are a different and dry setup I think. Not the smoking gun but gives you an incite of what the pro engine builders use and how much they use!

https://www.youtube.com/user/bollunjanumberone/videos

[ermax]

They must have different instructions in Oz but in America the instructions are very specific to ONLY use TB1217H which only comes in gray. The black stuff is what Toyota uses on their “Toyota” engines.

[slumlord]

Hi Guys,

Just posted my story on the registry.

Car had been running perfectly well since I bought it and was actually serviced slightly ahead of schedule. The car was stock standard, the only modification being a reversing camera.

Anyway, thought I would combine my 90K service with the valve spring recall to avoid the engine being pulled out twice. After I got the car it felt a little "off", in the sense that the accelerator response did not feel the same and there was slight smell of burnt oil when the car first started.

About a week after service, as I was coming off the freeway, I smelt smoke in the cabin but could not see any smoke or fire. About a minute later smoke was coming out from under the bonnet and the engine was making a tapping noise. I switched the motor off and was ready to leave when the smoke subsided. Home was about 400m downhill so I started the car again and coasted down.

When I examined the car there was oil in the bottom of the engine bay and some of it was obviously being heated by the exhaust manifold. There was oil in both exhausts and along the left side of the car. I reckon I was pretty close to having the car catch on fire.

I called the dealer and they arranged for a truck to take it back to the dealers where it has been for the last three weeks. Initially they said it was a worn gasket which they replaced but they were not happy with the way the engine was running and are trying to work out what is going on. I got a call on Thursday stating that they don't know how long it is going to take for them to fix the motor. They have given me a loan car.


Engine ticking noise.


Smoke from the engine.

[Bodalenko]

How many k’s had you done by the time this happened and who was the dealership who did your recall?

If anyone else posts bad reports about the recall can you supply the k’s you’ve done pre recall and then post recall and who the dealership was who did the job, and probably your experience with them when you had an issue.

I’d advise you to ring the Toyota recall direct line, it’s in your recall letter, and formally report this, they’ll give you a reference number so at least you know it’s formally recorded with Toyota.

What I did when I got home after the recall was to put the car on a large piece of clean cardboard so that I can see any leaks, water or oil!

Stand you’re ground and don’t accept anything less than perfect. They are lucky your car didn’t catch fire which is a life threatening event so you’re in a very good position to negotiate a very satisfactory result!

Good luck and keep us informed..

[ZZT86]

@slumlord keen to know which dealer also. This recall has turned into a big joke.


Mine has just gone in for the surgery on a perfectly good car, now the fun begins :|

[slumlord]

Sorry for the 404 link.

Here is the link to the video of the engine making a tapping noise.

@Bodalenko.

I did about 75,000km and the failure occurred about 100km after the service. I've spoken to Toyota Customer Care and have a reference no for the claim. I have also spoken to the dealer who, to be fair, has been pretty reasonable.

The dealership was Airport Toyota at Essendon Fields. I called them immediately after I got home (Saturday afternoon) and managed to get them to get a tow truck which took it straight to the dealer's. The tow truck driver also mentioned that I was lucky that the car did not catch fire. They have provided me with a courtesy car since then.

I think that they were initially a bit skeptical when I mentioned that other people had suffered the same fate following the recall but when I saw them today they were less so. Apparently, my engine has been taken apart and they cannot find the cause of noise. The cylinder head is being taken to their "specialist" who is going to give their opinion on the matter. As the situation stands I'm not sure when I'm getting my car back.

I'm not angry at the dealer. The fact that this is happening across the world points to the fact that the instructions for the valve spring replacement procedure are poor. Firstly, it does appear that the danger of oil contamination by RTV sealant isn't really emphasised. Secondly, they really should have some kind of jig or tool to assist with the sealant placement. Sealant placement seems to be a fiddly type of job, the type of job that is almost guaranteed to go wrong if hypervigilance lapses. Expecting guys in a workshop to be that "switched on" all the time is a recipe for disaster.

@ZZT86

It certainly has but it has the potential to be a deadly one. I had a thin film of oil coating the both the under and left side of the car. Had it caught fire it would have gone up quick. I would have had to escape from the passengers door. I had a bit of a cold chill run through me when I read about the 86 that caught fire in the U.S.

[slumlord]

I've got no idea why the link is not working.

Here is the youtube html:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR4aj1Xn0jg[/ame]

[slumlord]

@ZZT86

What worries me is the issue of partial oil starvation.

See, suppose you have a small amount of sealant stuck in one of the oil channels and it doesn't starve the component of oil but lets enough of a trickle to keep the part working for a while. Less oil means less lubrication and heat dissipation which in turn means earlier wear. I think the reason we're getting cars fail after various kms following the recall service is because of this mechanism. I think we're going to get a lot more "late failures."

[ZZT86]

Struth, it sounds like a tractor �� I very much doubt head gasket issue, that's a spun bearing as a result of oil starvation. A new engine is in order.

[ZZT86]

Damn Subaru

[Bodalenko]

Sorry if I missed it but when was your recall done? Mine was done from 27/3 -29/3 @ 34,3265kms.

That does NOT sound good and was the same dealership as mine and who told me they'd had no issues with other 86's recalled! Pretty typical or a dealership I guess!

I wonder if there's a pattern appearing with regard to who the tech is doing the job V the issues associated with them.

There are no positives in your story APART from the fact it happened just 100kms after the recall, has obvious visible and audible proof, leaving no doubt that it was responsible for the issue. Sounds like a loose or broken rocker arm or timing chain tensioner, Both easy to diagnose once the engines open. Mine, which was basically a loose connection took 957kms to show up. Toyota/Subaru should have conducted classes for those doing the recall pointing out all the mine fields associated with it especially the sealant use.

Are recalls done by Subaru dealerships having similar issues? The suggestion was that because they were working with flat four engines daily they would have less issues, but if this sealant is the smoking gun, unless Subaru techs are aware of it they'll prob make the same mistakes. And I say that not knowing if this overuse of the sealant is the problem or just one of several. The cleaning off of the old sealant and where it ends up seems to be a problem in addition to overuse.

As I posted earlier make sure if you have even a MINOR concern ring the recall direct line and report it then make sure you get a ref number to prove you reported your concerns. Pretty clear that this should have been no less than a short motor replacement and in the long run would have been a far cheaper solution, given the numbers of engines they produce daily and the overall costs, for all concerned especially Toyota. Yanks are very keen on Class Actions that can trickle down for a world wide result. Let's see what pans out.. So far after low coolant level due to an air lock. and a CEL due to a loose cam sensor wire my car is performing fine. I bounced it off the limiter yesterday and it showed no signs of shitting itself. Having a seperate oil pressure gauge will hopefully pay off if oil blockage is the issue it apparently can be. make sure to change those oil filters immediately after the car comes back and the at 500k intervals for 2k kms.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by ZZT86

Damn Subaru

Is Subaru or Toyota the bad guy here? Subaru might build the car but Toyota had a hand in the engine design and have held a 16.5% share of since July 2008.

Not a majority share holder but the only share holder apart from FHI itself and gives them a fair amount of decision making. I guess the supplier who produced the 'brittle' the springs would be a little nervous. This is probably a $50m global exercise/headache for Subaru.