Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by ericwudi0830

So who's actually gonna buy the BRZ STI?

I'm strongly considering it. Just gotta wait and see the reveal.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Side

I might trade my '16 automatic for it. Depends what the performance benefits are, and if the big wing is optional.

I'm also a bit curious about the WRX STI Type RA, but I think I love the BRZ platform a bit too much to make that trade.

Guess we'll find out on June 8th.

I'm sure you wouldn't have any trouble swapping the trunk with someone else+getting some cash out of it.

[krayzie]

The Type RA is coming here too? Looks like other makers like Ford is forcing Subaru's hand.

[fourdegrees]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I'm strongly considering it. Just gotta wait and see the reveal.

Agreed. I'm doing the same. Currently in a 15 I got a great deal on new. However, I've got the mod bug. My plans were the full TS suspension, headers with a tune, and a shortened final drive.
The final drive installed from the factory is a huge plus for me.

After seeing all of the changes to the 17 I went and drove one. I drove a PP this weekend and found the changes to be not quite enough for an upgrade. With the possibility of a TS version here, I'm seriously conaidering it.

[Veloist]

I'd consider selling my HyperBlue for a BRZ tS/ STI Sport or whatever they will call it.

It would need to have significant suspension changes and a nice interior but if I'm honest with myself then i'm pretty much sold on the aero kit, BREMBOS, wing, wheels, and the fact that the 17+ models have some nice changes over the 13-16 model like the steering wheel, bumper, LED lights, and of course the refinements to the engine.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

It doesn't require a total redesign of a car, but... it's not going to happen and here's why:

The twins were introduced in 2012 as a 2013 model, right before the HP arms race went bonkers. They're nearing the end of their life cycle. Other cars (4 banger turbo Mustangs and Camaros) have come out since that are getting more powerful and lighter, making steep competition for the twins. Those two cars, along with the Hellcat, come from the big three. Subaru spends about an equivalent percentage of revenue on R&D as the major players, sometimes even a higher percentage. Given that SOA sells a fraction of the cars as the huge companies, R&D budget is therefore much smaller.

It's not as simple as saying "Well, we've got some FA20DITs laying around, let's drop it in the BRZ so everyone shuts up." It doesn't just drop in, and changing the car to make it fit is a much larger ordeal than most people think. It's lots of new parts, lots of new certifications, and lower average fleet fuel economy.

So, if you're at the helm of a small car company experiencing exponential growth, and you have the opportunity to choose two of the following:

A) Go through the major project of adding 60hp to a sports car that usually sells 400 cars a month

B) Make an entirely new vehicle in an incredibly popular segment that you currently don't have a product in which will likely sell 15,000-20,000 a month

C) Start figuring out hybrid technology because let's face it, you have to...

Which two would you choose?

Subaru is putting their money where they will be most profitable. Years down the line if SOA is lucky enough to continue the growth they're hoping for, they may have larger budgets to do things like drop a new motor in a car halfway through its life cycle. For now, it's just not realistic.

No no, I fully don't expect a power jump, just find the whole notion of needing to completely scrap the design of the car to add a mid-rear setup with AWD to handle the power. Frankly I'd like to see them do something like a flex fuel from the factory with a tune to take advantage of it and maybe more tuning to remove the torque dip, but that's not going to happen. The time for that was the mid cycle refresh.

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

Redesigning the platform may be "simple," but if you've never been part of product development for a major manufacturer in an industry that is regulated, the process of such a redesign costs a very significant amount of money and time. The entire platform would at a minimum require retesting, requalification, and recertification to be sold as safe and reliable. As point out above, this takes away heavy resources from developing other projects that will provide them better ROI.

Yep yep. We're more likely to see sport versions of the Forester or something as it's a larger seller.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Who says the Hellcat and Demon are not a radically different design than the rest of the line up? They may look the same on the outside but that does not mean they are the same underneath the skin.

I used it as an example based on it's still a front-rear car with ridiculous power levels and not AWD.

Originally Posted by JD001

So a turbo'd Twin behaves different prior to the point when the turbo has spooled up compared to NA ? Is the NA smarter off the line?

Low end torque suffers a bit on a turbo car because of the exhaust restriction, but it's very minor compared to a roots style supercharger.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Hellcat has a 4493-pound curb weight. Subaru would never add even the half of the weight difference. They didn't agree in simpler things like providing a convertible model. Why to make this kind of compromise?

Power to weight ratio is more important here. You're the one making over exaggerations that we would need AWD.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

And it is not as simple to provide bigger tires. The tS car has already 17x7.5 wheels and Michelin PSS tires with stock power. With the current axle track, they could take an approval up to a 18x8 wheel. A half inch difference and similar rubber, cannot balance a 50-100hp increase.

Do what they do with the STI, widebody it. Still doesn't need to be AWD.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Totally agree. The majority of people requesting more power do not understand the purpose of this car and have not experienced the capabilities even close to the current limit.

Not going to say what I do with my car, but yes I know the limit and know the limit is quite high with MPSS. Traction control and stability control are wonderful things that allow cars like the Hellcat to not kill every mid-life-crisis buyer that gets in them.

Originally Posted by johan

I tend to disagree. I have a '17 with roughly 300bhp via a supercharger on this chassis with 17x8 - 245w PSS, it is absolutely easy to drive on the road and track. With the PP brakes and upgraded suspension (which I have driven a lot, my friend has one), it's begging for the power. With that wing for the added downforce - it would be 100% awesome.

And, it doesn't need to have 300bhp from the factory - 250 would be fine. 50 less than I have now, it'd be trivial with the upgrades seen on that STI to have it be considered safe on the street and track. I'd argue that it's ignorant to claim otherwise.

When there's cars like the 4C and Cayman doing exactly what we're talking about, it's totally plausible. But there's no way anyone would spend 4C or Cayman money for this car so I absolutely don't expect it.

Originally Posted by ericwudi0830

So who's actually gonna buy the BRZ STI?

I would consider it, but only if it's a true tS and not another Series.Blue. Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I wouldn't trade it in for a new one unless it was the full boat and not just a bodykit.

[JD001]

So Subaru doing a big reveal on the 8th June 2017?? Resurrection of a WRX STi RA and a BRZ "something"...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Power to weight ratio is more important here. You're the one making over exaggerations that we would need AWD.

I said AWD could be a solution, not the only one. Personally, I wouldn't like an AWD solution for this car. It would be like a 2-door WRX.

Originally Posted by Poodles

When there's cars like the 4C and Cayman doing exactly what we're talking about, it's totally plausible. But there's no way anyone would spend 4C or Cayman money for this car so I absolutely don't expect it.

The 4C and the Cayman are mid-engined cars with front-to-rear weight distribution close to 41:59. On our cars it is quite the opposite, with most of the weight in front.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by JD001

So Subaru doing a big reveal on the 8th June 2017?? Resurrection of a WRX STi RA and a BRZ "something"...

I don't expect so much from the BRZ. If there is a STI RA, it might be more interesting ...

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Veloist

I'd consider selling my HyperBlue for a BRZ tS/ STI Sport or whatever they will call it.

My only dislike with the first model is how the rear tends to bottom out over bumps on the road. Not sure if it is fixed with the new model but the STI x Bilstein setup for sure fixes this.

The most noticible improvement with the STI model will for sure be steering response.

[uppitypanda]

Originally Posted by ericwudi0830

So who's actually gonna buy the BRZ STI?

I'm currently in the market for a BRZ.. got a '17 PP negotiated down to really good price so I'm just waiting to see what upgrades will come with the STI. I was going to purchase the aero kit and wheels anyways so it might just make more sense to wait. If it isn't worth it I'll buy the PP and do the upgrades myself.

[Ernest72]

Personally, if you already have a BRZ - I would just make a clone before you take a hit on trade ins and the like. Pretty much anything can be bought and modified for this car.
Subaru realizes the demand for STI tuning or styling - They will likely STI everything so the rarity will disappear over time.

Other than a nice real 22B, not much collectibility for Subarus.

[WRBrzRX]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Other than a nice real 22B, not much collectibility for Subarus.

while pretty true, it does seem worth noting how well WRX/STIs have always held value over the years

not that the twins do or anything, just giving credit where due

--------

ramble: they can keep popping out twins at Gunma for as long as they feel like it while everything else has moved on to the Global Platform but the most business sense is for them to let it die off corresponding with demand and the usual life cycles (Subaru is extraordinarily conservative in business choices, especially over time)

no turbos, no BRZ on Global Platform, just a gentle death in ~2021.. Toyota focuses on their FT1/Supra w/ BMW, maybe makes a small sports car again

a lot of what makes this chassis is center of gravity of everything, how we're dropped deep between the chassis rails like a proper sports car

http://blog.caranddriver.com/subaru-...uture-subarus/

just looking at it you can see that we cant do that on the Global Platform's chassis so the real business sense is then in making the WRX/STi shine again, likely with hybrid powertrain as a half step into electric

what price would a boosted BRZ be out the door? a bit more expensive than an STi, really close to $40k.. they know they can't really sell as many as journalists and internet cowboys demand

they sold us a platform to do that yourself, cheap, they told us that from the beginning, from before the beginning! boost em yourself boys

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I said AWD could be a solution, not the only one. Personally, I wouldn't like an AWD solution for this car. It would be like a 2-door WRX.



The 4C and the Cayman are mid-engined cars with front-to-rear weight distribution close to 41:59. On our cars it is quite the opposite, with most of the weight in front.

The issue with too much rear bias is physics takes over if you lose traction which a front bias allows more control under that situation. Porsche took decades to make the 911 not kill you in corners because of this.

One would argue that rear bias is more dangerous...

Originally Posted by krayzie

My only dislike with the first model is how the rear tends to bottom out over bumps on the road. Not sure if it is fixed with the new model but the STI x Bilstein setup for sure fixes this.

The most noticible improvement with the STI model will for sure be steering response.

Never had this issue with my 2015 for what it's worth. Dunno if I've just never hit bumps that hard or if it was fixed

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Personally, if you already have a BRZ - I would just make a clone before you take a hit on trade ins and the like. Pretty much anything can be bought and modified for this car.
Subaru realizes the demand for STI tuning or styling - They will likely STI everything so the rarity will disappear over time.

Other than a nice real 22B, not much collectibility for Subarus.

If it's a true tS, there's a number of things done at the factory that can't be cloned. Some welded in bracing, airbag, and seats can't be obtained here. Not to mention the cost of the STI components is more expensive than buying the car with them. I wanted the STI wheels, body kit, and under panels. The cost of those things, plus the cost of a Limited model is higher than the price of the Series.Blue, so i got it. The special interior was simply a bonus...