tuning in fl

[jamesm]

can anyone recommend someone for a tune in fl? i'm planning on doing FBM's stage 1 turbo soon, and will need someone to tune it.

ideally i'd like to use BRZEdit, as i am a software developer/nerd who's into that sort of thing. i want a setup that i can play with after it's tuned by a pro.

is anyone using BRZEdit for pro tuning yet? in fl specifically? i believe titan uses ecuedit for other cars, and i'm sure some evo shops might be jumping on since the software is nearly the same.

[Sportsguy83]

I did extensive search but only for ECUTek.

[Visconti]

I'll be there next week tuning

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I'll be there next week tuning

@King Tut look at this....

[kenward]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I'll be there next week tuning

Where in FL will you be and for how long?

[feldy]

@FA20Club.com is in Florida as well.

[mad_sb]

contact @FA20Club.com

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I'll be there next week tuning

I am IN.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

@King Tut look at this....

Looking forward to it.

[jamesm]

they're all ECUTek guys . i'd love to buy a canned tune from one of the ecutek vendors, but i plan to do further upgrades. i'd hate to pay for a new tune every time i change something, and the ecutek maps aren't user editable.

my goal is to get the BRZEdit set up with a basemap for the FBM (presuming i go that route) turbo kit. I'll either have to rent dyno time or pay a tuner to do it, since i can't pull the ecutek-based map from FBM as a base to work from, and i'd hate to do it on the road. initially i plan to map it myself for stock, then exhaust, etc. until the forced induction comes (i'm dynojet certified and have been tuning sportbike fi for the last 10 years, built/tuned many a megasquirt, just don't have access to a dyno).

The end goal is building an online repository of open source BRZEdit maps (and eventually a truly free port of ECUEdit) for 86's of various configurations. The car world could learn a lot from the software world when it comes to things like this. It's absurd that with a forum full of smart people who possess applicable skills, that we haven't seen open source tunes, turbo kits (think thingiverse), lcd gauge panels, etc. if the software world operated at this level of efficiency we'd still be writing in assembly language.

So, a bit of a tangent, but that's what this is for. I want lots of maps, that I own the IP to, that others can have them for free and improve upon them and pay it forward. Because Richard Stallman told me to.

james

[Rich@ViscontiTuning]

Originally Posted by jamesm

they're all ECUTek guys . i'd love to buy a canned tune from one of the ecutek vendors, but i plan to do further upgrades. i'd hate to pay for a new tune every time i change something, and the ecutek maps aren't user editable.

my goal is to get the BRZEdit set up with a basemap for the FBM (presuming i go that route) turbo kit. I'll either have to rent dyno time or pay a tuner to do it, since i can't pull the ecutek-based map from FBM as a base to work from, and i'd hate to do it on the road. initially i plan to map it myself for stock, then exhaust, etc. until the forced induction comes (i'm dynojet certified and have been tuning sportbike fi for the last 10 years, built/tuned many a megasquirt, just don't have access to a dyno).

The end goal is building an online repository of open source BRZEdit maps (and eventually a truly free port of ECUEdit) for 86's of various configurations. The car world could learn a lot from the software world when it comes to things like this. It's absurd that with a forum full of smart people who possess applicable skills, that we haven't seen open source tunes, turbo kits (think thingiverse), lcd gauge panels, etc. if the software world operated at this level of efficiency we'd still be writing in assembly language.

So, a bit of a tangent, but that's what this is for. I want lots of maps, that I own the IP to, that others can have them for free and improve upon them and pay it forward. Because Richard Stallman told me to.

james

James -

I wanna start by saying I absolutely respect your intent here. After all, this is a community and we are here to help each other. However, I disagree that creating a "database" of sorts giving anyone access to open source maps, would be beneficial to the tuning scene or the 86 platform as a whole.

For one, while I whole heartedly agree that there are many smart, talented individuals on this forum, that does not equate to experience. There needs to be safe guards in place; especially in this type of application (tuning cars) because the results of a bad calibration or miscalculation can destroy the engine and be very costly. It's not like writing software, where you make a mistake, the application crashes, you find the bug, no harm, no foul.

I have two good examples of why I don't think this would be a good idea. In the Evo scene, there was very similar approach to this made, and the end result was a complete tank in support. On the other end, in the STi world (and as in this scene), you had Cobb and EcuTek locked in competition to create the best calibration and software. The point being, competition is what breeds the best results. It's what keeps companies on the cutting edge of development and technology. And that's worth keeping proprietary and worth paying for. Otherwise, you lose the incentive for the most talented among us to keep hammering away at making those extra horses.

Lastly, the second example I have is the comparison between Linux and Microsoft (and you could even go off on a tangent with Apple here too). Linux is open sourced. I certainly don't have usage stats "on me" at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet liberally it's low single digits. Meanwhile, (despite Apple's triumphant return to grace with its even MORE closed off ecosystem) Windows still dominates. If you take away the incentive to be the best, you lose the talent to make the best.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Rich@ViscontiTuning

James -

I wanna start by saying I absolutely respect your intent here. After all, this is a community and we are here to help each other. However, I disagree that creating a "database" of sorts giving anyone access to open source maps, would be beneficial to the tuning scene or the 86 platform as a whole.

For one, while I whole heartedly agree that there are many smart, talented individuals on this forum, that does not equate to experience. There needs to be safe guards in place; especially in this type of application (tuning cars) because the results of a bad calibration or miscalculation can destroy the engine and be very costly. It's not like writing software, where you make a mistake, the application crashes, you find the bug, no harm, no foul.

I have two good examples of why I don't think this would be a good idea. In the Evo scene, there was very similar approach to this made, and the end result was a complete tank in support. On the other end, in the STi world (and as in this scene), you had Cobb and EcuTek locked in competition to create the best calibration and software. The point being, competition is what breeds the best results. It's what keeps companies on the cutting edge of development and technology. And that's worth keeping proprietary and worth paying for. Otherwise, you lose the incentive for the most talented among us to keep hammering away at making those extra horses.

Lastly, the second example I have is the comparison between Linux and Microsoft (and you could even go off on a tangent with Apple here too). Linux is open sourced. I certainly don't have usage stats "on me" at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet liberally it's low single digits. Meanwhile, (despite Apple's triumphant return to grace with its even MORE closed off ecosystem) Windows still dominates. If you take away the incentive to be the best, you lose the talent to make the best.

of course i respect your opinion, though let's not pretend that's it's an unbiased one lol. of course tuners are opposed to open source tuning, for the same reason apple is opposed to the emergence of android as an open source alternative.

it is true that tuning has risks associated. all tuning has risks associated. i think anyone interested in involving themselves with open source tuning is aware of this and should probably know more of what they're doing than someone who buys a tune. this is a given.

however the benefits far outweigh the downsides, for those of us willing to accept them. there is no better way to improve a system than through the open collaboration of an active development community. there are lots of folks out there who either know, or would love to learn, how to properly tune an ecu. most of them don't have access to the proprietary tuning mechanisms that companies like ecutek offer. This is aimed squarely at them, the 'makers' of the community i guess you could say.

we now have software that can flash an ecu for $500. soon we'll have similar software that does the same thing for free (with freely available source code). ultimately it comes down to a matter of choice: do i buy someone else's intellectual property (a map) or lean on the community's collective knowledge (the repo) and craft/modify my own? it's a decision we make every day we decide whether to employ a library or write our own, and it comes with risks not unlike those you mention. this doesn't mean it's a bad choice, sometimes it's the only reasonable one.

the point is not to debate open source vs. closed source tuning, as both have their place in the market and can coexist perfectly fine. the market's don't really overlap. someone who would buy a tune usually isn't the same guy that's going to spend 6 hours on a dyno tweaking his map. it's really just about opening up the option and building a community around freely available intellectual property that otherwise would be proprietary. this methodology has a proven track record of creating wonderful things. you'd be hard pressed to offer an example where the profit-motivated, walled-garden approach has resulted in a better product that the open equivalent.

oh, and don't smack talk linux. those numbers are consumer sales and are misleading. you wouldn't be typing on this forum if it (and the open source community around it, wink wink) didn't exist.

open source never hurts anyone, except the guy that used to hold the key to the proprietary box.

[Rich@ViscontiTuning]

Originally Posted by jamesm

of course i respect your opinion, though let's not pretend that's it's an unbiased one lol. of course tuners are opposed to open source tuning, for the same reason apple is opposed to the emergence of android as an open source alternative.

it is true that tuning has risks associated. all tuning has risks associated. i think anyone interested in involving themselves with open source tuning is aware of this and should probably know more of what they're doing than someone who buys a tune. this is a given.

however the benefits far outweigh the downsides, for those of us willing to accept them. there is no better way to improve a system than through the open collaboration of an active development community. there are lots of folks out there who either know, or would love to learn, how to properly tune an ecu. most of them don't have access to the proprietary tuning mechanisms that companies like ecutek offer. This is aimed squarely at them, the 'makers' of the community i guess you could say.

we now have software that can flash an ecu for $500. soon we'll have similar software that does the same thing for free (with freely available source code). ultimately it comes down to a matter of choice: do i buy someone else's intellectual property (a map) or lean on the community's collective knowledge (the repo) and craft/modify my own? it's a decision we make every day we decide whether to employ a library or write our own, and it comes with risks not unlike those you mention. this doesn't mean it's a bad choice, sometimes it's the only reasonable one.

the point is not to debate open source vs. closed source tuning, as both have their place in the market and can coexist perfectly fine. the market's don't really overlap. someone who would buy a tune usually isn't the same guy that's going to spend 6 hours on a dyno tweaking his map. it's really just about opening up the option and building a community around freely available intellectual property that otherwise would be proprietary. this methodology has a proven track record of creating wonderful things. you'd be hard pressed to offer an example where the profit-motivated, walled-garden approach has resulted in a better product that the open equivalent.

oh, and don't smack talk linux. those numbers are consumer sales and are misleading. you wouldn't be typing on this forum if it (and the open source community around it, wink wink) didn't exist.

open source never hurts anyone, except the guy that used to hold the key to the proprietary box.

Your points are well made, but I still disagree. And quite honestly, I think this is a much deeper debate than simply the "merits" of an open source tuning community. But obvious bias aside, Visconti earned his place in this community (and the advantages we have) through hard proven results. He is a talent. And it's like I said before, especially in this industry, you get what you pay for.

[jamesm]

for sure, i'd never argue that. i just think it's ok to lower the barrier of entry and let the rest of us have a go at it.

anyway, a bit off topic lol.