2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. Natural selection at it's best. Those that could drive had the kids that survived. Those that couldn't...

You could be the best driver in the world and still get hit by a drunk driver

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

You could be the best driver in the world and still get hit by a drunk driver

You would obviously freak if you knew the stuff that I rode in as a kid! Half of the vehicles had no doors and a bit of still existing floor was a total luxury. Was in more danger from the CO pouring in than from any drunk drivers. My Dad's complete idea of safety was to yell "hang on" whenever we turned fast.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

When I was a kid seat belts barely existed. For that matter we hauled my firstborn around in a car with no seatbelts. Laundry basket did a great job. She survived.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yep, I spent almost as much time in the floorboards of my parents' cars as I did on the seats.

That is, when I wasn't riding in the back of my Dad's pickup, which was always my preferred seating, usually sitting on the fender hump, unless it was raining, then I was up against the cab in the "dry zone".

My father was a great believer in seat belts. If the car didn't come with them he put some in. Might have had something to do with the open cockpit air plane he built in the thirties. hehe



You might be surprised at how long some safety features have been around. For example, my father’s 1934 La Salle (pictured) had shock absorbing bumpers and push button start.



Speaking of riding out in the open, there is nothing like riding in a rumble seat. (Yes, I speak from experience.)

[echo419]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

You know anything about this @echo419 ?

thankfully I have no idea what he's talking about.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Somehow I don't think Subaru is going to leave money on the table - if they see a significant rise in BRZ demand, they'll find some way of meeting it.

It will be interesting to see how the new GT86 front fascia impacts sales numbers internationally, it's possible that in non-Western markets the new look will be more warmly welcomed.

In Canada, Subaru's elected to stay with a HU that has nav - not sure if it's otherwise any better or worse than the new US HU (other than being a tiny bit smaller, at 6.1 rather than 6.2 inches) or the GT86 unit.

From reading on Asian blogs Thai/Japanese/Chinese and some euro ones. They actually don't have issues with the 86 front and seems to be ok with it. I don't think there's a lot of issues with its looks. It's really literally mostly here, on this forum where I read the most complaints. international most of the time they are just excited for a new 86 and that there's a new improved one. This is however initial data when the car is released and on roads it be totally different I'm sure.

Then again This is the biggest enthusiast community for this car in the world and we all know enthusiast like you and I are the biggest complainers ever. Even if they made it look good we'll find something else to complain about, that and most of us already own the old model, and it's not like we are gonna trade up. Lol I'm only partially joking part of this post.

Also do you think Toyota will leave money on the table, they paid to have the car made. They'll do everything to monopolize just like the last model.


I do enjoy discussing everything with everyone though, so let's wait and see what happens !

[Sport-Tech]

Obviously if GT86 sales should fall off relative to the BRZ there is no way of knowing for certain that its revised appearance was the main driver of this, short of conducting a lot of market research. But it's widely acknowledged that sports car buyers are heavily influenced by appearance considerations, and if a lot of folks find the look of the updated GT86 makes them squirm a bit, it's very likely to impact sales - the other improvements in the refresh are not going to be nearly as salient to the typical twins shopper (as opposed to the real enthusiast). How many buyers are going to be more heavily swayed by the slightly better shocks, a bit more chassis bracing, a lower final drive ratio, or a retuned intake and revised engine internals giving a whopping 5 hp more? Hardly any, I'd bet.

And even for the minority whose buying is influenced by these considerations, the BRZ offers all of those same improvements, so the differentiating factor between the twins will still boil down largely to appearance (since pricing is no longer a factor).

[ztrevs]

I hope the BRZ skyrockets in sales... hopefully that translates to better discounts on the 86

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The kids who died from a lack of seatbelts back in the day obviously can't speak up here.

Very true. Interestingly enough, I didn't know a single kid that died in a car accident because of a lack of seat belts as a passenger. I frankly do find that odd given I grew up around Fort Bragg, NC in the middle of the Vietnam War. I will say though that my family (and most families I knew) NEVER went out in the car after about 10:00pm with kids in the car.

I do know a couple that wrapped a car around a tree once they got to driving age, but nothing changed about that over the years.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Obviously if GT86 sales should fall off relative to the BRZ there is no way of knowing for certain that its revised appearance was the main driver of this, short of conducting a lot of market research. But it's widely acknowledged that sports car buyers are heavily influenced by appearance considerations, and if a lot of folks find the look of the updated GT86 makes them squirm a bit, it's very likely to impact sales - the other improvements in the refresh are not going to be nearly as salient to the typical twins shopper (as opposed to the real enthusiast). How many buyers are going to be more heavily swayed by the slightly better shocks, a bit more chassis bracing, a lower final drive ratio, or a retuned intake and revised engine internals giving a whopping 5 hp more? Hardly any, I'd bet.

And even for the minority whose buying is influenced by these considerations, the BRZ offers all of those same improvements, so the differentiating factor between the twins will still boil down largely to appearance (since pricing is no longer a factor).

Hey I think you're right about a lot of things but the point that a lot of us are trying to make here is first this is where things differ, you're talking GT86 that's basically and equivalent to a BRZ Limited in Non Western non NA market. Most of those market including Australia aren't turned off by the looks they're pretty excited for a new Toyota. This is also a point that @Tcoat was making before there's just more Toyota in the world than Subaru, this including dealer networks.

For a good example in Thailand it's very uncommon to buy a Subaru because their network doesn't exist at all. Most of our Thai meme bed here have 86. And I'm sure this is the case for a lot of countries. I think for Australia and England it's prolly closer to us at the uS they have access to the BRZ. For NA yeah the looks and the fact that there's only one trim will prolly see a decline in numbers and more BRZ interest. But I don't think it's such a huge shift from just a it's front bumper is not nice. again that's super subjective, I've met people who just said no to BRZ new front too.


It's gonna be fun to see those market data like you say!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Obviously if GT86 sales should fall off relative to the BRZ there is no way of knowing for certain that its revised appearance was the main driver of this, short of conducting a lot of market research. But it's widely acknowledged that sports car buyers are heavily influenced by appearance considerations, and if a lot of folks find the look of the updated GT86 makes them squirm a bit, it's very likely to impact sales - the other improvements in the refresh are not going to be nearly as salient to the typical twins shopper (as opposed to the real enthusiast). How many buyers are going to be more heavily swayed by the slightly better shocks, a bit more chassis bracing, a lower final drive ratio, or a retuned intake and revised engine internals giving a whopping 5 hp more? Hardly any, I'd bet.

And even for the minority whose buying is influenced by these considerations, the BRZ offers all of those same improvements, so the differentiating factor between the twins will still boil down largely to appearance (since pricing is no longer a factor).

The pro vs hate comments on the threads are pretty much split 50/50 really. Add to that the fact that the haters will always be more vocal than the likers and I don't think even this forum can be used to judge the reception fairly.

The shoppers that are not going to be swayed by the other improvement are also the shoppers that may just like that new front end. Toyota sells a shit load of other cars with the same basic design so I don't think it is going to put many casual buyers off. All in all just because some of think that front end looks like crap we can not say that the most or even many others will agree with us
The 17 model year will be a tough one to judge sales on anyway since it is still monospec and sort of a bastard transitional thing. The real truth in judging sales will be when they bring in more trim levels and start to attract the "Oh look at all the toys" crowd. the 17 doesn't really lean toward the enthusiast nor the casual buyer so it may just sort of hover there.

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Very true. Interestingly enough, I didn't know a single kid that died in a car accident because of a lack of seat belts as a passenger. I frankly do find that odd given I grew up around Fort Bragg, NC in the middle of the Vietnam War. I will say though that my family (and most families I knew) NEVER went out in the car after about 10:00pm with kids in the car.

I do know a couple that wrapped a car around a tree once they got to driving age, but nothing changed about that over the years.

Not sure if they show the disturbing pictures of high speed crashes to today's high school students anymore from the 50's and 70's?


Probably the inner demon in me, but I only put on a seatbelt if I know I am going over 50km/hr or the cars around me are as well. Strangely enough, sometimes see local police officers not wearing one, while cruising around. Were the recent collisions resulting in the death of police officers in our province related to lack of seat-belt use? Most of the alpha ones appear to have good driving senses from what I see.


Never been in a vehicle with airbags deployed, but personally don't trust those things so I drive as defensively as possible. It might take another year for me to build trust for these things.

[Psilox]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

Not sure if they show the disturbing pictures of high speed crashes to today's high school students anymore from the 50's and 70's?


Probably the inner demon in me, but I only put on a seatbelt if I know I am going over 50km/hr or the cars around me are as well. Strangely enough, sometimes see local police officers not wearing one, while cruising around. Were the recent collisions resulting in the death of police officers in our province related to lack of seat-belt use? Most of the alpha ones appear to have good driving senses from what I see.


Never been in a vehicle with airbags deployed, but personally don't trust those things so I drive as defensively as possible. It might take another year for me to build trust for these things.

Seat belts are definitely effective at reducing injuries, even at lower speeds. 50km/hr is a pretty damn high delta-v to be flung into the windshield at. It's like falling from 11 meters.

Edit: And that's only if you hit something stationary. If you're talking head on at those speeds, that's obviously 100km/h delta-v, or a fall from about 43 meters.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

Never been in a vehicle with airbags deployed, but personally don't trust those things so I drive as defensively as possible. It might take another year for me to build trust for these things.

Hmm. Early this last Saturday morning I helped rescue a family of four from an Elantra that got t-boned by another car right in front of me (I was on my sportbike)

The side curtain airbag explosion actually seemed to have added some to the injuries to the woman in the passenger seat- but likely prevented worse. Too many dynamics to know for sure.

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by Psilox

Seat belts are definitely effective at reducing injuries, even at lower speeds. 50km/hr is a pretty damn high delta-v to be flung into the windshield at. It's like falling from 11 meters.

Edit: And that's only if you hit something stationary. If you're talking head on at those speeds, that's obviously 100km/h delta-v, or a fall from about 43 meters.

Ok, I will put on my seatbelt on now. I just pray, god forbid, if my airbags deploy, it doesn't ruin my beautiful face.