What type of tires would you have on an OEM performance model (TRD/STI)?

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

So you're measuring the performance of the tires, not the car. Is that what you're saying?

When talking about say driving at 8/10ths, yes. Basically
Or how hard the driver is working, which I consider to be about the same.

(In generall my view point of performance is probably different compared to most, more towards handling character)

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Actually, the car tends to oversteer, not understeer. That's what I'd expect in a RWD-biased AWD car. Either way, the car really has an amazing level of grip before it breaks loose. My Audi came with 255/35/19 summer rubber and the sport suspension package, so it has more grip than average.

What car are you driving? Most Audis either understeer, or understeer a lot!

[dori.]

The performance model should have performance tires. Simple.

[SUB-FT86]

I would hate to be that guy driving around 25-45 mph around a turn and the back slides out while a cop is behind me. Instant ticket!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by RaceR

Jeremy Clarkson says the stock Prius tires are the masterstroke about the GT86. ( jump to 1.19)

Road and Track tested the performance models, and did not seem that impressed with the added grip that the modifications and new tires made. (Michelin tires in the size of 215/40/ZR 18. Probably Pilot Super Sport since they are available in that size and Primacy HP are not)




So, what type of wheels and tires would you like to see on a performance version? Or maybe on the future performance packages?

But also Jeremy said that you can do this LEGALLY anywhere! He's a entertainer.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by RaceR

What car are you driving? Most Audis either understeer, or understeer a lot!

My car:



I'm guessing that you haven't driven a new Audi lately. The newer B8 cars are being built on Audi's MLP (modular longitudinal platform), which mounts the engine behind the front axle centerline instead of hanging it way out in front of it like the older Audi chassis. That means the cars have a decent weight distribution (mine is 53:47) and neutral handling. Combined with RWD-biased quattro, however, the car does tend to oversteer at the limit, especially under power. I've swung the tail out on mine a few times, but it was still controllable in a four-wheel drift kind of way. And like most cars, it is possible to get my car to understeer as well. It all depends on the specific conditions at the time.

[Dezoris]

Why is this even a debate? Just buy the tires YOU want. The tires offered as a factory a or dealer option are usually overpriced junk anyway.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Why is this even a debate? Just buy the tires YOU want. The tires offered as a factory a or dealer option are usually overpriced junk anyway.

Hence the debate and poll.
So what tires would you have chosen? Would it not be great if they actually put on the tires you wanted?
I find the Primacy HP to suit the car perfect. Some don't.
I would also be interested in putting performance tires on the car for competition use, and the performance tires I would need for that would never be equipped on the performance version. So I would not be satisfied with a compromise in the middle.

In my case, low resistanse rolling tires would probably save me enough CO2 taxes to afford high performance tires of my taste for the taxes saved! (not kidding!)

And if the car is so successful with the primacy tires, adding only 20-30 "torqueless" hp in combination with increasing grip with both tires and drivetrain (suspension) modifications would not increase the fun. The car would actually feel more underpowered in terms of grip vs hp. It would than be less playful.
The ability to drive the car on and beyond the limits in corners without feeling like a numb heavy boat on rails are the main reason why this car are doing so well in reviews, and as a drivers car.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

My car:



I'm guessing that you haven't driven a new Audi lately. The newer B8 cars are being built on Audi's MLP (modular longitudinal platform), which mounts the engine behind the front axle centerline instead of hanging it way out in front of it like the older Audi chassis. That means the cars have a decent weight distribution (mine is 53:47) and neutral handling. Combined with RWD-biased quattro, however, the car does tend to oversteer at the limit, especially under power. I've swung the tail out on mine a few times, but it was still controllable in a four-wheel drift kind of way. And like most cars, it is possible to get my car to understeer as well. It all depends on the specific conditions at the time.

Nope I have not driven any of the newer larger models.. the smaller and more lightweight Audi cars use a crappy AWD system and crappy engineering and have basically set new world record in classic Audi understeer for the 10th time. I have seen enough reviews or the larger models with proper quattro. Yes they have decent weight distribution and a great torque vectoring rear differential and a rear biased powertrain. But they are way to heavy, not driver cars at all, and not "chuckable" and nimble at all. All reviews I have seen say they all push under power. All video reviews I have seen show that. Which is no surprise, because those models are not meant to to be sports cars at all. They are made to be safe and stable on the German autobahn while still having good corner abilities. Just because several of their models have 40:60 power distribution does not make them oversteer when being pushed properly.
I would love to have a ride in your car and be proven otherwise tough. But Im way too far away..

I have not driven the more hardcore evo models, but those seem to be the best AWD drivers cars..

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I would hate to be that guy driving around 25-45 mph around a turn and the back slides out while a cop is behind me. Instant ticket!

Lol.. Its not like this car slides around all over the place.. You either have to provoke it with the electronics turned completely off. Or you have to drive really fast and reach the limits of the tires. And if you had a cop behind doing that, than you would get an instant ticket anyway.

I think people who have bad experiences with low grip tires have had issues doe the the following reasons.
-Driving on crappy tires, not predictable slip
-Older hard rubber tires, not predictable slip
-worn out tires, not predictable slip, especially in wet conditions
-Driving with fwd cars and understeering due to lack of front end grip.

My FWD Cooper S have Michelin Pilot Super sport at the front (bought by me) and some decent max performance summer tires at the rear. Not only does that make me get most of the power and torque down. It makes the car more neutral and balanced. And I can more easily get the car to have lift-off oversteer. A thing I have found easier with higher grip tires on that car. Its all win.

A RWD car like the FR-S/BRZ is the opposite.
You don't have much torque and power down low. So no traction problem in a straight line. You also have an LSD that helps you when cornering hard, no 1-wheel drive. The car is balanced, you can make it do whatever you want when reaching the limits. Oversteer is fun. Being able to balance the car is fun. Driving on the limits is fun. With the power of the engine the tires only enhance those traits.
(Im not saying, low on horsepower)

I don't get why people want an RWD sports car if they don't want to experience oversteer, steer the car with the throttle and just feel the great balance on the limit which are much more obtainable with stock tires.

I mean, there are so many capable, FWD cars out there with more power, more straight line speed, who can do better lap times and who have more grip, more "grip-lover friendly" and are more practical...

Some times I think there are many posers who just like to say they are driving a RWD sports car for the feel of it, but they don't actually experience it at all. And they put on performance tires to get even more away from that experience.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by RaceR

Nope I have not driven any of the newer larger models..

Well, maybe you should before you cast judgment. It's easy to bash something that you're not familiar with, but you wouldn't do that, would you?

the smaller and more lightweight Audi cars use a crappy AWD system and crappy engineering and have basically set new world record in classic Audi understeer for the 10th time.

Which Audi models are you talking about? The A3? That's the smallest car (at least in the U.S.). The A4 and A5 are both somewhere in the middle, but they both use the newer MLP platform where the engine is behind the front axle centerline. The only "big" Audi is the A8. But here's a newsflash for you: They all use the same basic quattro system, which is the 5th generation system. The 5th gen system uses a Torsen planetary gearset center diff. The only real difference is that some models come with the sport differential, whichs adds torque vectoring to the rear axle. The only car that uses a different quattro system is the new RS5, which has the 6th generation quattro system. It uses a Crown Gear diff, which is supposed to be stronger than the Torsen diff in the 5th gen system.

I have seen enough reviews or the larger models with proper quattro. Yes they have decent weight distribution and a great torque vectoring rear differential and a rear biased powertrain. But they are way to heavy, not driver cars at all, and not "chuckable" and nimble at all.

I've never driven any Audi bigger than my A5, so I can't really say how they feel when driving. I can tell you that my car is absolutely a drivers car and feels much more nimble than it should based on it's weight. Mine is the lightest model with the 2.0 turbo engine. Because of the lightweight engine block, it has better weight distribution and handles (and brakes) better than the V8 S5 or the V6 A5 (which has been discontinued). As far as handling prowess, I'd easily put my A5 up against my old E36 M3.

All reviews I have seen say they all push under power. All video reviews I have seen show that. Which is no surprise, because those models are not meant to to be sports cars at all. They are made to be safe and stable on the German autobahn while still having good corner abilities. Just because several of their models have 40:60 power distribution does not make them oversteer when being pushed properly.
I would love to have a ride in your car and be proven otherwise tough. But Im way too far away..
.

Yeah, I think you need to take a ride in a new Audi. If not, you'll be basing your opinions on nothing but the opinions of other people. Take a look at this video and tell me if it looks like the RS5 (the fastest version of my car) looks like an understeering pig.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQKADZcQM4c"]Audi RS5 vs BMW M3 video - YouTube[/ame]

[SUB-FT86]

I guess since people don't like what you like they are posers. I love the elitist attitudes of guys on here.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Well, maybe you should before you cast judgment. It's easy to bash something that you're not familiar with, but you wouldn't do that, would you?

Anything above A1 and A3 I consider a larger Audi.
I already consider BMW 1-series (F20/F21) to be quite heavy.

We have extremely different views of what is a drivers car. And also what is considered chuckable and nimble. What is light and what is a lot of understeer.

The RS5 did not look like and understeering pig in the clip. I know that models is not an understeering pig. But that video just showed how much more off a drivers car the M3 is. Could not help smiling just by looking at how beautifully and controlled the M3 went through the corners. The M3 was sold to me at 20 seconds into the vid.
I wont bother finding a bunch of videos showing how much more of a drivers car the BMWs are, and find videos where the BMW models is faster. No need, especially since its very off-topic.

But ill put this clip here. Shows the problem with the smaller models.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o&feature=g-vrec"]BMW M135i v Audi RS3: Road, Track, Drag-race. - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

I will never argue Audis are not fast..

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I guess since people don't like what you like they are posers. I love the elitist attitudes of guys on here.

Im just a bit "hardcore". :p
I would love to hear people explain why they are so for RWD cars but yet put on so sticky tires they end up loosing most of the throttle steer abilities and almost never have to counter steer. Basically loose most of the RWD feel.