FRS stands for "FUN but REALLY SLOW"

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Don't the newer Zs come with oil coolers? I thought the 11+ models did.

Just did a quick google search, looks like the 2012 models have them. I haven't really kept up with the 370Zs, kind of lost interest after my test drives.

[ggpaul]

Wow. Interesting thread. My 2 cents - I love this car. It's everything I could ask for. I was going to get the ACURA NSX before this one (I'm still going to get it), but I wanted to get a car that's going to turn heads. So far this car has DONE that since it's brand new, and it does look exotic. I wanted to get a car that's perfectly balanced, this car is DOING that. I wanted a car that's FUN to drive, and damn I LOVE going on the turns. I wanted a car with good gas mileage and this is it. I don't need the fastest car, especially here in CA. Besides, if I want it to be fast I can make it fast. Whatever. But the looks of this car is such a beauty, I've gotten soo many compliments over this car. And I'm damn sure I'll get more compliments over this than a 370, STI, Mustang, Corvettes etc which I have already done so in the past.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

First off you don't know what you are talking about here.

1. The 370Z makes its power above 7k rpms. Just look up any 370Z dyno for confirmation.

http://www.370z.com/Forums/tabid/88/...c/Default.aspx

2. Chris Harris called it a 8/10ths car and he tested a "BASE" model 370Z without the Sport package which includes a giant list of things important. Go and look at any other review with the Sport or Nismo package and I guarantee you will find all of them say this word about its handling "really neutral at the limit".

The only "real" negatives I have read about the Z pertains to NVH of the whole car which IMO is not a big deal since it's a sports car and not a luxury car.

i drove it, i didnt like it too many blind spots like the 350z its uncomfortable to me and isnt like a real fairlady. i drove in a lot of z32 300zx and 240z and 260z and those were real nice cars. it feels too disconnected in my opinion. so i cant have an opinion on it? but this guy who doesnt own an frs/brz can bash it and its cool? ... seems like a troll on our forum dude. who goes out of their way to make a profile on the frs/brz forums and doesnt even like the car enough to buy one but give a whole list of things he doesnt like after driving soooo many porsches. sorry but you dont have to attack me like im stupid.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

i drove it, i didnt like it too many blind spots like the 350z its uncomfortable to me and isnt like a real fairlady. i drove in a lot of z32 300zx and 240z and 260z and those were real nice cars. it feels too disconnected in my opinion. so i cant have an opinion on it? but this guy who doesnt own an frs/brz can bash it and its cool? ... seems like a troll on our forum dude. who goes out of their way to make a profile on the frs/brz forums and doesnt even like the car enough to buy one but give a whole list of things he doesnt like after driving soooo many porsches. sorry but you dont have to attack me like im stupid.

I never attacked you about calling the guy a troll. I was only pointing out the bolded things in your post as being inaccurate. I always figured the FRS/BRZ would have its share of haters because to some people they wanted more in the HP/TQ dept. Every sports car have its lovers and haters. Chris Harris hates one of the cars that everyone seems to worship. The MX5! I bet there is someone who dislikes the RX8, S2000(I do), or any other sports car period. I like the fact that sports cars are liked by different people and each car has different tastes. I personally like the 370Z(I love 6 cylinder engines way more than 4 cylinders) a little more than the BRZ but if the Z didn't exist the BRZ would be my only other car to buy under 40k that I like.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I never attacked you about calling the guy a troll. I was only pointing out the bolded things in your post as being inaccurate. I always figured the FRS/BRZ would have its share of haters because to some people they wanted more in the HP/TQ dept. Every sports car have its lovers and haters. Chris Harris hates one of the cars that everyone seems to worship. The MX5! I bet there is someone who dislikes the RX8, S2000(I do), or any other sports car period. I like the fact that sports cars are liked by different people and each car has different tastes. I personally like the 370Z(I love 6 cylinder engines way more than 4 cylinders) a little more than the BRZ but if the Z didn't exist the BRZ would be my only other car to buy under 40k that I like.

understood sir.

i love 6cylinders a lot too but for some reason i love how great it is to drive a 4 cylinder with some spunk. ive been driving E36 cars for a while and love the inline 6 a lot but not a fan of the gas consumption, i really love the Boxer engine though its awesome i used to own a 98 Legacy GT which was not a wonderful machine but the boxer was cool to listen to and i love riding in my friends 04 sti.

maybe i should ride in a 370 again with its owner and see what they really can do before i make a statement like that again.

apologies.

[regal]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The FR-S is almost completely neutral at the limit, almost shockingly so. When I autocrossed it, I was laughing to myself that Toyota (of all companies) would have the balls to tune a car so neutral in handling balance.

.

I am surprised to read this. FR-S doesn't feel neutral at the limits at all, rather a bit tail happy. Are you wearing different tires than the stock pirelli's ?

[SUB-FT86]

I don't think Pirelli's is the stock tires.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by regal

I am surprised to read this. FR-S doesn't feel neutral at the limits at all, rather a bit tail happy. Are you wearing different tires than the stock pirelli's ?

I think there's a lot of potential for miscommunication when talking about something like this. To be clear, when I say it's neutral at the limit, I mean:

1) On a skipad-like setting
2) Steady-state (enough throttle to maintain your max speed)
3) And since you mentioned it, on stock Bridgestone Turanzas

In that setting, I've found the FR-S is almost completely neutral. Can you cause the rear end to step out by giving it throttle at the limit of its grip? Yes. But it's that adjustability, that ability to change the car's slip angle with minor throttle inputs, that shows it's almost completely neutral at the limit.

When a car is setup that neutral, it will feel "tail-happy" at times, especially as you're trying to put power down coming out of turns. I think that's why some people prefer the suspension tuning on the BRZ, which understeers more at the limit, but smooths out that transition between slight understeer and power-oversteer. I haven't driven the BRZ though, so I can only speculate based on how people describe its handling.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think there's a lot of potential for miscommunication when talking about something like this. To be clear, when I say it's neutral at the limit, I mean:

1) On a skipad-like setting
2) Steady-state (enough throttle to maintain your max speed)
3) And since you mentioned it, on stock Bridgestone Turanzas

In that setting, I've found the FR-S is almost completely neutral.

Under the conditions you listed above, every car on earth is completely neutral. Only when the car is actually "at the limit" (which means on the edge maximum traction/grip and losing that traction/grip) do we know if a car tends to oversteer, understeer, or be more towards neutral.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Under the conditions you listed above, every car on earth is completely neutral. Only when the car is actually "at the limit" (which means on the edge maximum traction/grip and losing that traction/grip) do we know if a car tends to oversteer, understeer, or be more towards neutral.

You notice I wrote at max speed? That means the car is at the edge of its traction in the skidpad at that point.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

You notice I wrote at max speed? That means the car is at the edge of its traction in the skidpad at that point.

Right, that's my point. Max speed doesn't necessarily mean max grip. In other words, if you were driving around a skidpad and not losing grip, then of course the car will be neutral. Every car is neutral in that situation. It's only when you get to the point that grip is lost that you know if the car is tailhappy or not. Does it oversteer? Understeer? Is it neutral? This can't really be determined unless you bring the car to (or beyond) its maximum grip, not speed.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Right, that's my point. Max speed doesn't necessarily mean max grip. In other words, if you were driving around a skidpad and not losing grip, then of course the car will be neutral. Every car is neutral in that situation. It's only when you get to the point that grip is lost that you know if the car is tailhappy or not. Does it oversteer? Understeer? Is it neutral? This can't really be determined unless you bring the car to (or beyond) its maximum grip, not speed.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying or you're arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to split hairs. When you're going maximum speed on a skidpad, you ARE at maximum grip. The FR-S is almost neutral at that point. Feed it slightly more throttle, and the front tires will slip slightly. Give it more abrupt throttle, and the rear will come around.

And no, not every car is neutral at that point of maximum speed on a skidpad. On my GTI, no matter how you feed the throttle at that point, the front will slip first.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying or you're arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to split hairs. When you're going maximum speed on a skidpad, you ARE at maximum grip. The FR-S is almost neutral at that point. Feed it slightly more throttle, and the front tires will slip slightly. Give it more abrupt throttle, and the rear will come around.

And no, not every car is neutral at that point of maximum speed on a skidpad. On my GTI, no matter how you feed the throttle at that point, the front will slip first.

I thought we were talking about RWD cars here. When I said "every car" I was certainly talking about RWD cars. I thought that was understood.

Anyway, my point was simply that understeer or oversteer doesn't happen until you lose traction. So if you're just circling a skid pad at maximum speed without braking traction, then the car will be neutral.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

I thought we were talking about RWD cars here. When I said "every car" I was certainly talking about RWD cars. I thought that was understood.

Anyway, my point was simply that understeer or oversteer doesn't happen until you lose traction. So if you're just circling a skid pad at maximum speed without braking traction, then the car will be neutral.

RWD, FWD, doesn't matter. Steady-state balance is about suspension tuning. Look at the new FWD Focus ST. From all reports, it's fairly neutral at maximum speed around the skidpad. (Or you can use my old RWD Crown Vic as an example of a RWD car that understeers at that point).

To your second point about needing to break traction, that's pretty obvious isn't it? That's exactly why you bring a car to maximum speed around a skidpad, to see what its handling balance is at that point when it's about to break traction. How it responds to throttle input at that point tells you how balanced it is.