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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 20 13.25%
I might get one if they offer a MT 60 39.74%
No, not me. 71 47.02%
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:08 PM   #603
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I believe all the Dodge Hemi engines are built in Mexico. I know mine were.
May many many many parts are built in Mexico now. More than people would ever believe. Even components for the assemblies in the Japanese and German dream machines. The distrust of Mexican parts is more cultural than reality based. Same applies to the big company plants in China.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:44 PM   #604
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Why? If they meet the same requirements you get the same product.
To a certain extent that may be true but there are minute variation in assembly and craftsmanship that may appear apparent due to the location and people (culture plays a part here) of the different factories. It's just something I've seen repeatedly over the years in all kinds of products.

Not saying Made in Japan is bulletproof but most of the time it's right at the top in terms of quality control. The JDM version even more meticulous made than the export version of the same product (unfortunately you will have to spend sometime living in Asia to know this and see with your own eyes).

For example I don't know if you have examined the fit and finish of Honda products coming out of Alliston and Ohio compare to Japan in the 90's it was so apparent to the point of hilarious.

Anyway if this engine is so modified by Toyota you would have thought they could convinced BMW to add a dipstick with minimal plastic.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:47 PM   #605
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May many many many parts are built in Mexico now. More than people would ever believe. Even components for the assemblies in the Japanese and German dream machines. The distrust of Mexican parts is more cultural than reality based. Same applies to the big company plants in China.
I remember looking at the sticker when I bought my truck and laughing; "American truck". Engine and drive train built in Mexico, just about everything else in Canada. Parts are from everywhere these days.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:56 PM   #606
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To a certain extent that may be true but there are minute variation in assembly and craftsmanship that may appear apparent due to the location and people (culture plays a part here) of the different factories. It's just something I've seen repeatedly over the years in all kinds of products.

Not saying Made in Japan is bulletproof but most of the time it's right at the top in terms of quality control. The JDM version even more meticulous made than the export version of the same product (unfortunately you will have to spend sometime living in Asia to know this and see with your own eyes).

For example I don't know if you have examined the fit and finish of Honda products coming out of Alliston and Ohio compare to Japan in the 90's it was so apparent to the point of hilarious.

Anyway if this engine is so modified by Toyota you would have thought they could convinced BMW to add a dipstick with minimal plastic.
It is no longer the 90s

If they make things different for the JDM market than they do for export then they are violating their own systems and are therefore no more reliable in quality than something made elsewhere.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:02 PM   #607
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...The JDM version even more meticulous made than the export version of the same product

So, what you are saying is they have different quality standards based on the destination of the product, not based on the workers. That feeds directly into what @Tcoat was saying as well.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:07 PM   #608
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:38 PM   #609
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It is no longer the 90s

If they make things different for the JDM market than they do for export then they are violating their own systems and are therefore no more reliable in quality than something made elsewhere.
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So, what you are saying is they have different quality standards based on the destination of the product, not based on the workers. That feeds directly into what @Tcoat was saying as well.
That's right it's no longer the 90's. I think Made in Japan quality overall has actually gotten worse these days in general.

For the longest time it was pretty common knowledge that for the same product Made in Japan, they keep a higher QC (let's say @ 98%) for domestic consumption since their own population has a low tolerance for defects. While the ones made that resulted in slightly lower quality (let's say @ 95%) will be destined for export, since they know it'll still be made better than competing foreign made products.

After the 2008 crash and during that Toyota unintended acceleration debacle, I think the word got out that the Japanese factories started hiring young part time workers to fill the line that could care less about craftsmanship which irked alot of the older workers whose primary focus was on quality.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:50 PM   #610
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That's right it's no longer the 90's. I think Made in Japan quality overall has actually gotten worse these days in general.

For the longest time it was pretty common knowledge that for the same product Made in Japan, they keep a higher QC (let's say @ 98%) for domestic consumption since their own population has a low tolerance for defects. While the ones made that resulted in slightly lower quality (let's say @ 95%) will be destined for export, since they know it'll still be made better than competing foreign made products.

After the 2008 crash and during that Toyota unintended acceleration debacle, I think the word got out that the Japanese factories started hiring young part time workers to fill the line that could care less about craftsmanship which irked alot of the older workers whose primary focus was on quality.
I do not believe that there would have been two standards at any point in time. A 3% difference in quality would be within spec anyway. It may have seemed there was a difference since North American cars take way more abuse than in Japan so issues stand out more but to intentionally make them inferior would just not happen. It would take some pretty solid and repeatable evidence to convince me they built to two different standards. "Common knowledge" is frequently not common nor knowledge.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:18 PM   #611
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A 3% difference in quality would be within spec anyway.
Newly made products fresh off the assembly line, and that's the whole point they know the westerners will think this way anyway and cannot detect or care about the 3% difference.

Well my original comment was really based on @funwheeldrive's comment.

Maybe you're right these days it no longer matters much due to the global supply chain (we've touched on this lots of times here in the past). If it says Made in Japan, for sure a lot of components are manufactured elsewhere like Thailand, Taiwan, China, Philippines, etc.

But Japan has come a long way since the US Occupied Japan days where my grannies would not touch their stuff with a 10 feet pole in the 50's and early 60's (the old "Japanese Alarm Clock" joke for something that's wonky).

I gotta say there is a certain allure to a product that is made in the brand's country of origin. The question then is why would you make a flagship product outside of your own country?
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:14 PM   #612
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Viewpoint taken.

However, I personally think it's nonsense to consider purchasing a $50k+ car and immediately voiding the factory warranty. Furthermore I think it's ridiculous to compliment a brand new car while basically admitting it needs more power.

Also the transmission is still inferior to Porsche's PDK, which in it's 718 iteration has been around for a while (and the 718 is it's supposed competition).

I admit the allure of just reflashing a turbo engine. Still silly to need to push that as an advantage for a new car. But going down that road...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Audi TT-RS. If you want to talk about out of the gate turbo engine reflashes that car's a straight up beast
I think you are jumping to conclusions.

The Supra will have the same engine and transmission as the car I am driving right now.

Even before I tuned my car it never felt like it needed more power and (I hate admitting this, first sporty car I've ever owned without a manual) the transmission is amazing does its job better than I ever did myself with a stick.

The Supra is going to way 200+lbs less than my car, have a better weight distribution, and better suspension setup.

Saying its under powered before driving it is jumping to conclusions.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:14 PM   #613
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I do not believe that there would have been two standards at any point in time. A 3% difference in quality would be within spec anyway. It may have seemed there was a difference since North American cars take way more abuse than in Japan so issues stand out more but to intentionally make them inferior would just not happen. It would take some pretty solid and repeatable evidence to convince me they built to two different standards. "Common knowledge" is frequently not common nor knowledge.
There are a lot of factors, many changes, outsourcing that have impacted the difference between what was once Japanese 90's OEM vs a modern OEM. The slave cylinder pin finally went out on my 93 Supra and so I figured I might as well swap out the MC. Even though this is an Aisen->Toyota OEM, check out the difference.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:28 PM   #614
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There are a lot of factors, many changes, outsourcing that have impacted the difference between what was once Japanese 90's OEM vs a modern OEM. The slave cylinder pin finally went out on my 93 Supra and so I figured I might as well swap out the MC. Even though this is an Aisen->Toyota OEM, check out the difference.
Yep. They will save every penny they can. Again though that isn't a parts manufacturer just making what they want it is the spec provided to them by the customer. Doesn't matter where or who made it it was made to the spec they were given. Outsourcing isn't the culprit the OEM reduction in what they ask for at the price point they want to pay is.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:30 PM   #615
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Nobody builds their own transmissions.
You're right. When I was younger I used to build my own but for some reason I would only do so at night.


They were nocturnal transmissions.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:54 PM   #616
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As if BMW actually build its own slush boxes for its production cars?
Technical term is torque converter. And that is a very advanced/reliable transmission. I think you are trying to use a degrading term for some reason. Do you have a problem with torque converters or are you a transmissionist?


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As if it doesn't build other BMWs there.
Current production list
Mercedes-Benz G-Class 1979–present
BMW 5 Series 2017–present
Jaguar E-Pace 2017–present
Jaguar I-Pace 2018–present
BMW Z4 2018-present
Toyota Supra 2019–present


past production list
Voiturette (1904)
Alpenwagen (1919)
Puch 500/650/700c/126 (1957–1975)
Haflinger (1959–1974)
Pinzgauer (1971–2000)
Volkswagen Transporter T3 4x4 (1984–1992)
Volkswagen Golf Country (1990–1991)
Audi V8L (1990–1994)
Jeep Grand Cherokee ZG, WG (1994–2004)
Mercedes-Benz E-Class W210 (1996–2002) (all-wheel-drive)
Mercedes-Benz M-Class W163 (1999–2002)
Chrysler PT Cruiser FY & FZ (Jul 2001 – Jul 2002)
Mercedes-Benz E-Class W211 (2003–2006) (all-wheel-drive)
Saab 9-3 Convertible (2003–2009)
BMW X3 (2003–2010)
Chrysler 300C (2005–2010)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WH (2005–2010)
Jeep Commander XH (2006–2010)
Chrysler Voyager (July 2007 – December 2007)[citation needed]
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG (painted aluminium body) (2009–2014)
Peugeot RCZ (2009–2015)
Aston Martin Rapide (2010–2012)[7]
Mini Paceman (2012–2016)[8]
Mini Countryman (2010–2016)[9]
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