FRS/BRZ vs. Fiat 500 Abarth

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by torquemada

both versions with 135 and 160 hp were tested in germany, not much difference.
Fiat uses something called TTC, some sort of simulated slip differential through brake control, it makes the car significant slower.

Supposedly the SS kit for the US version will put it up to 200hp. At least thats the current rumor.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

That's the one thing that kills this car for me.

Its also the thing that makes it for me

It makes for an EXCELLENT autocross car!

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Basically there are 3 1.4 turbo engines made by Fiat for the Abarth brand:

135/155/160 hp: (500 Abarth, Essesse, Grande Punto Abarth, Alfa MiTo) this has the smaller turbo, normal valve t & l, and the two different power level are made just with the ECU map. With full exhaust, map and CAI it gets to 185 hp and 260 nm.

170 hp: (Grande Punto Abarth Evo, Alfa MiTo QV) this is the newer engine and has the multiair valve timing and lift system and a revised turbo. It will probably fitted to the 500 some time in the future. It gets 190 hp with exhaust, CAI and remap, with 270 nm of torque.

180 hp (Grande Punto Abarth Essesse, 500 Assetto Corse / Ferrari /0-100 special editions): this gets a bigger turbo, different sensors, map, different downpipe.
With a full exhaust and a remap it can get over 200, even 210-215 on the GPA as the intake is different, with 300-320 nm of torque.
A popular mod is to source a Essesse kit for the GPA and fit it on the 500, along with a Forge Intercooler, a remap and a Supersprint exhaust. Very reliable (a guy has 80k km with this kit now, with many trackdays), strong and linear, with a good trottle response and a nice exhaust tone.

[Kostamojen]

Well the motors for the U.S. model are built in Detroit, and IIRC are slightly different than the Euro motors. So I wouldn't be surprised if the turbo motor is different as well.

[switchlanez]

^What kind of motors? GM? Are they used in other American cars?

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Its also the thing that makes it for me

It makes for an EXCELLENT autocross car!

Haha ...true!

[Gardus@Supersprint]

If I'm mistaken right now the Abarth is not sold in the US, and the engine for the Fiat 500 is a 1.4 16v NA with 80 hp or so...
Even the Twinair (900 cc twin cylinders in line, turbo) is faster and more economical.

[Deslock]

Meh. FWD + an extra 210 pounds over its front wheels (vs the 2662 pounds FT).

Life is too short for understeer.

Still, this thing will crush at autox and be a blast to flog. I'm gonna test drive it for kicks.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

In autox you'll need to fit a LSD but otherwise it will be very good.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^What kind of motors? GM? Are they used in other American cars?

They are Fiat motors, but slightly different somehow. I forget how exactly what the difference is, but here is an article about the engine:

http://www.fiat500usa.com/2011/08/in...00-engine.html

Originally Posted by Gardus

If I'm mistaken right now the Abarth is not sold in the US, and the engine for the Fiat 500 is a 1.4 16v NA with 80 hp or so...
Even the Twinair (900 cc twin cylinders in line, turbo) is faster and more economical.

The Abarth is going to be sold in the U.S. starting next year.

The ONLY engine option for us in the U.S. is the 1.4l Multiair with 101hp as seen in the link.

The smaller motors will never be sold here, not enough power for U.S. driving (we have fast, wide open streets everywhere, even the residential areas, not to mention LOTS of freeways and highways with 65mph+ and LOTS of merging with high speed traffic).

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Ah! You probably have never been in Italy...the traffic on the highway is usually 55 in the "trucks lane", 65/70 in the middle lane and 80+ in the fast lane...as the "average speed check" has a 10% tolerance I usually drive at 90 mph on the highway...and on the B-roads where there's no speed cameras people drive as fast as they feel comfortable.
I laugh when you say the smaller engines has no market in the US, a 500 Twinair is faster than the 1.4 101 hp as it's lighter and has more torque, it has no problem at cruising around 80/90 mph.

Smaller than the 1.3 there's only the asfittic 1.2 69 hp, all the other engines are gutsier than the 1.4, even the 1.3 turbo diesel in the real world.

The 1.4 100 hp was good in the Panda as it was less restricted and the car was lighter and less refined.

[Kostamojen]

I'll be honest, I like the Twinair from the reviews I've seen. But Americans fear owning small cars due to all the large cars on the road no matter what engines you put in them

Currently the ONLY cars with under 100hp sold in the U.S. are the Smart Car and the Toyota IQ (rebadged as a Scion). The Chevy Spark will be sold next year with an under 100hp engine, but for quite awhile there were NO cars being sold here with under 100hp if that tells you anything about the market here...

The good thing about driving here is no speed cameras, you just have to watch out for actual Highway Patrol on the road or doing speed traps. The other thing is our back roads are better than advertised too, especially here in California

[Gardus@Supersprint]

I can understand the thing about big cars...as in EU cities and roads are very different we had just a short love story with the SUVs, mostly because the soccer players were buying them, but now people are more interested in "human-sized" 4x4, like the Nissan Quashqai, the Mini Countryman and the new Range Rover Evoque (which is quite beautiful in the metal)
Engine sizes are smaller, 1.6 or 2.0 liter, turbo, diesel or petrol, with 140/220 hp.

I still don't see the average US citizen as a car person, with the automatic-only licences, the drag-race predisposition etc...

[ForReal-Someday]

For a "human sized" SUV i would like to go with the Nissan Juke (not sure what it's called in other markets). But in the US they totally screwed the pooch by only offering the awd turbo model with a cvt.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...NEWS/111009972
Check that out!

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Yeah I know..but the juke design is just awful!

[ForReal-Someday]

Originally Posted by Gardus

Yeah I know..but the juke design is just awful!

I can see where you're coming from. It's a pretty controversial design. But, I kind of like it.