Suing Toyota over Warranty Issue (Synchros)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Yep, no doubt ...... nobody "fixes" things anymore ...... they just replace them.....

It's honestly just a matter of parts availability, if a set of synchros could be easily and affordably attained more people would try. Like you said, it's a transmission not a rocket engine.

Originally Posted by mazeroni

What is the % of bad synchros for people that have zero mods, only ever use the car on the street while obeying all posted laws, and they have 30K-100K miles?

Wait, are you implying that because a defect has a low occurrence rate it shouldn't be covered by the factory?

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Wait, are you implying that because a defect has a low occurrence rate it shouldn't be covered by the factory?

Only if it is a factory defect, which isn't the case here as best as I can tell.

I would need to know (roughly speaking) the number of people that develop the synchro issue and have never driven the car hard or have mods. Having this information would give us a baseline to judge whether it could be argued as a factory issue, or whether it really is user error.

When I say hard, I am speaking to not using the car for 100% normal road use as clearly defined by state laws and the manufacturer warranty. Events, whether they are competitive or not, in a parking lot or track, isn't relevant as these are all objectively not normal road use.

Obviously you can drive the car hard on the street, but without mods, self admitted track use, etc., you should reasonably expect that Toyota would fix the issue, unless they can prove you used the car outside what is normal road use. But that seems like another discussion.

Kind of like how Corvette owners want to sue Chevy because the cars overheat on the track. If it overheats on the track, I don't recognize that as a Chevy problem, regardless of whether the car has a "track" mode or it is advertised as such. That is user error. Buy an oil cooler or don't track it.

If they overheat during normal road use, then you have my attention.

[Slammillionaire]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Only if it is a factory defect, which isn't the case here as best as I can tell.

I would need to know (roughly speaking) the number of people that develop the synchro issue and have never driven the car hard or have mods. Having this information would give us a baseline to judge whether it could be argued as a factory issue, or whether it really is user error.

When I say hard, I am speaking to not using the car for 100% normal road use as clearly defined by state laws and the manufacturer warranty. Events, whether they are competitive or not, in a parking lot or track, isn't relevant as these are all objectively not normal road use.

Obviously you can drive the car hard on the street, but without mods, self admitted track use, etc., you should reasonably expect that Toyota would fix the issue, unless they can prove you used the car outside what is normal road use. But that seems like another discussion.

Kind of like how Corvette owners want to sue Chevy because the cars overheat on the track. If it overheats on the track, I don't recognize that as a Chevy problem, regardless of whether the car has a "track" mode or it is advertised as such. That is user error. Buy an oil cooler or don't track it.

If they overheat during normal road use, then you have my attention.

I agree with most of what you're saying here, but if you look on chevy's website, the section for the zo6 clearly markets it as a track car. 90% of the photos of it are on a track, advertises all of the upgrades it has over base stingrays that help it on the track etc. Compare that the the ft86, while marketed as a fun sports car, you don't see the same track focused marketing.


http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...e-z06-supercar

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Slammillionaire

I agree with most of what you're saying here, but if you look on chevy's website, the section for the zo6 clearly markets it as a track car. 90% of the photos of it are on a track, advertises all of the upgrades it has over base use etc. Compare that the the ft86, while marketed as a fun sports car, you don't see the same track focused marketing.


http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...e-z06-supercar

Interesting. I do see that they explicitly state or imply that the Z06 is engineered, designed, and built for track use and competition.



How bad can Z06 owners fuck up their car before Chevy will refuse to fix something? Suppose I can't drive stick for crap, if I trash the clutch or synchros at the track, does Chevy honor* the warranty?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Interesting. I do see that they explicitly state or imply that the Z06 is engineered, designed, and built for track use and competition.



How bad can Z06 owners fuck up their car before Chevy will refuse to fix something? Suppose I can't drive stick for crap, if I trash the clutch or synchros at the track, does Chevy owner the warranty?

The marketing, engineering and warranty departments may not all agree on what the car can and can not be used for and still covered by warranty.
People tend to think of the business as a few people that have offices next door to each other so that they effectively communicate their plans and goals for the vehicle. It isn't like that. The different departments may not even have a clue what the others are doing or saying.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

How bad can Z06 owners fuck up their car before Chevy will refuse to fix something? Suppose I can't drive stick for crap, if I trash the clutch or synchros at the track, does Chevy honor* the warranty?

This is why I tell people that are worried about warranty to treat their interactions w/ the dealer as a business transaction.

You gotta give the dealer a reason to back you up and help your case out. Level-headed discussions and a willingness to work with them on resolving your situation often lead to a favorable outcome for the customer (and the dealer, since they get reimbursed).

If one goes out guns blazing and/or just throw it directly on the dealer/manufacturer, their borderline warranty claim won't even make it past the service manager.

-alex

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

This is why I tell people that are worried about warranty to treat their interactions w/ the dealer as a business transaction.

You gotta give the dealer a reason to back you up and help your case out. Level-headed discussions and a willingness to work with them on resolving your situation often lead to a favorable outcome for the customer (and the dealer, since they get reimbursed).

If one goes out guns blazing and/or just throw it directly on the dealer/manufacturer, their borderline warranty claim won't even make it past the service manager.

-alex

^This is so true!
I bet I could take my car out to the track (I don't but if I did) and the service manager would send a tech to help me out while there. I have zero doubt that if I had had a warranty claim it would be done with zero questions asked. In fact although well out of warranty at this point I bet I could get some goodwill repairs done if anything actually ever broke.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Interesting. I do see that they explicitly state or imply that the Z06 is engineered, designed, and built for track use and competition.



How bad can Z06 owners fuck up their car before Chevy will refuse to fix something? Suppose I can't drive stick for crap, if I trash the clutch or synchros at the track, does Chevy honor* the warranty?

Doesn't matter what the advertisements/marketing says, what matters is what the warranty says. This is directly from the GM warranty applicable to all vehicles.

Notice that it is not limited to "racing" but any type of competition.

Originally Posted by Chevy Warranty

Damage Due to Accident, Misuse, or Alteration

The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover damage caused as a result of the following:

•Collision, fire, theft, freezing, vandalism, riot, explosion, or objects striking the vehicle.
•Misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition. Proper Vehicle use is discussed in the Owner’s Manual.
•Alteration, modification, or tampering to the vehicle, including, but not limited to the body, chassis, powertrain, driveline, software, or other components after final assembly by GM.
•Coverages do not apply if the odometer has been disconnected, its reading has been altered, or mileage cannot be determined.
•Installation of non-GM (General Motors) parts.
•Water or fluid contamination.
•Damage resulting from hail, floods, windstorms, lightning, and other environmental conditions.
•Alteration of glass parts by application of tinting films.


Important: This warranty is void on vehicles currently or previously titled as salvage scrapped, junked, or otherwise considered a total loss.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Doesn't matter what the advertisements/marketing says, what matters is what the warranty says.

But I wanna make a YouTube channel for likes and evidence gathering! Who cares what legal paperwork means!

[Dadhawk]

Adding to my note above, I looked at the 2017 Corvette owners manual.

Page 164 talks specifically about track use, and outlines some of the requirements for it, as does page 205.

Track Events and Competitive Driving Participating in track events or other competitive driving without following the instructions provided may affect the vehicle warranty. See the warranty manual before using the
vehicle for racing or other competitive driving.

Refer to Competitive Driving Mode 0 205.
Be sure to follow all service procedures before driving the vehicle at track events or competitively.

[stevesnj]

Sue the dealer not Mr. "T".

By the way a NEW trans is under 6k

https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/...003-04329.html

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

By the way a NEW trans is under 6k

https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/...003-04329.html

+ Shipping

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

+ Shipping

Not if you get it delivered to the dealer and pick it up. That's the way I buy my OEM parts.

[stevesnj]

Fourth gear and sychro