Automatic FRS

[Shedd22]

I just dont understand why people who have MT give a damn about what other people drive. It fathoms me that people have that much free time to worry about something that doesn't belong or have anything to do with them. Get a damn hobby.

As I said earlier, I've driven both MT and AT. Bought the AT. If I lived in the middle of no where I'd buy MT 100% of the time, but I dont so AT it is for me.

[Autocon]

"An automatic takes away a certain element of driving and control."

This is the biggest problem with MT drivers. They just assume that if you have an AT you ONLY drive in full auto mode. I drive in Manual mode in my AT and have to shift up and down through all six gears just like you do.

[EZx2]

And you do it with less stress on chassis, with better ability to lower temperatures in transmission (also with ssp kit if needed)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

If mine had manual window and locks I would be thrilled. Thankfully mine doesn't have a sunroof, leather, nav, etc....

I'm right there with you. Most of that seems like a good idea but (maybe with the exception of NAV) provides no real benefit. I hate leather seats, particularly since I keep a car until the wheels fall off. The first things that look ratty in a car are leather seats. My wife's '05 Mustang with black leather showed wear within two years. The cloth interior of our last family car (a 2000 Astro) still looked near new after over 280,000 miles of family vacations.

Of the five cars I own, 1 is a convertible, and 3 have sunroofs. The top is down maybe a dozen times a year and the sunroofs rarely ever.

Never had a manual window fail, every electric window car I've owned had to be worked on at some point or had some quark. The aforementioned Astro for example had a driver side window that operated perfectly until it started to rain, then they would roll down, but not up. It seemed like I always went through a toll booth just before it started to rain. The only exception was when it was at the dealer, then it would always work without fail.

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'm all for the manual windows! Because race car. lol

Exactly! I said early on had the electric windows been an option, I wouldn't have paid for them.

[Shark_Bait88]

Like I said, I completely understand the reasoning behind the AT offering and choosing it as an option.

To clarify: I think the reason some MT drivers "look down" on AT drivers isn't because they just have free time and want to complain about someone else's choices because of their own insecurities, but rather it's because they see the sale of automatic sports cars as a contribution to the death of the manual transmission. It leads them to believe that all manual transmissions will be done away with, or only offered as a marked-up option in the future.

Can any of us honestly deny that you do not have more control in a car with a stick shift and clutch pedal? It grants you more control over your revs etc.

Granted, automatic transmissions with manual/paddle shift options are getting much much better at replicating this level of control, and indeed the best ones shift much faster than any manual. As someone who works for one of the largest transmission manufacturers in the world, I know this very well.

Of course Ferrari, Porsche, Corvettes, Lamborghinis, etc. are all amazing sports cars with flappy paddle shifters. However, when you watch/read many of the reviews and chatter around them, there isn't necessarily a demand that the cars be made with manual gearboxes but rather a slight longing for that more connected feeling that rowing your own gears gives you. In a car that is all about connecting the driver to the car to the road, some people believe that manual should be the only option because it heightens that experience of being connected.

I am not saying that I actually believe that only manuals should be offered in these cars, because I certainly understand the reasons why people would choose the automatic. I am more playing devil's advocate. I think the tables have kind of reversed in this thread, and anyone who thinks the MT is better is being painted as some smug **** up on their high horse. I think that most of the views really do lean more towards a concern for the exponentially declining number of manual cars in the market.

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I agree with you that manuals are better suited for sporty cars, so we agree there. But nobody is saying you (or I) can't have our manuals.

Letting others who prefer automatics buy them would be no skin off our backs. Why force others to drive manuals when they don't like them?

The Twins are offered with automatic or stick. Everyone can pick whatever makes them happy.

To be honest with you, if the Si had a automatic transmission I'd buy one in a minute for the wife. You're right, people should have a choice especially since they've gotten so much better in the past few years.

Ever get the Feeling we manual drivers will be a dying breed in the next 15 years? Just like people that know cursive and remember life without the Internet?

[LLYNCES]

It's interesting to see all the replies on here. I don't see how buying an AT contributes to the death of manual transmissions, if anything it's the death of having to deal with a third pedal that might be something to worry about.

That being said, AT's 20 years down the line will be able to fully replicate shifting WITH the performance (even exceeding) the performance of a manual transmissions.You still will have full control over your car (shifting) but without having to deal with an extra pedal to do so.

This car (AT) from my experience shifts extremely well in manual mode. My paddle shifts are blazing fast, and the only way an MT driver is getting full control and performance out of this car is if they know how to shift quickly and properly (as with any MT) That's sort of why I went with the AT to begin with after test driving both; I'm just bad at using the clutch and know because of my crappy clutch use that I'd likely be paying for another one down the line, and it would be aggravating to have to deal with in traffic (to me) and I would be getting more performance out of the AT because I can barely drive MT.

With the AT I can literally just chill in traffic while eating and not have to worry about the clutch. Some people don't have this problem as it comes naturally to them, but to me there is just so much #(+# going on in traffic the last thing I want to worry about is my clutch and stalling....also rolling back on hills is annoying when somebody is right on your ass.

I do get quite a bit of crap from people for getting the AT though, I wont lie. It is a bit slower. I get some good gas mileage though which is nice and ripping around corners feels amazing in this car. Toyota/Suburu did a good job with the AT version of this car - they could have done a bit more (dual clutch) but I enjoy my AT. I probably will throw a turbo or supercharger in at some point.

Also I was wondering with the MT (I never tested this) when downshifting does the car still make that amazing noise the AT produces? When downshifting this car sounds absolutely amazing and gets tons of looks.

[TCGMark]

Here is something I considered when buying the manual transmission. How much it costs to rebuild an automatic. Every automatic I have owned at some point needed transmission work. Of the manual transmissions I have owned, only one needed a rebuild after I put 350k miles on it (I didn't baby the gearbox either). In my experience, manual transmissions last way longer than automatic transmissions do (this is not considering the fact that new technologies and such could possibly make an automatic last longer). How many clutches would you have to replace before you paid for a rebuild on an automatic? To each their own, of course, but so far I have not seen this point brought up in this thread yet.

[Masago88]

This was my first Manual Car, purchased last month, 2014 WRB LTD 6 Speed Manual.
My very first stint in a manual was years ago in an old highschool friends' 98' Integra (Before it got stolen and was found stripped bare a few cities away), I didn't even know you had to clutch in before starting the car, was an awkward but memorable 5 minutes for the both of us.

Since then I've had on and off stints with years in between driving roommates' manual tranny cars when the opportunity arose - I stalled each and every one over and over.

When I picked up the BRZ, I stalled it twice just getting it out of the dealership.
The day after, I took it to an empty highschool at night to practice going from stop to first to 2nd in the parking lot - and I was feeling an intense buyer's remorse because I was getting a lot of rattling noises and jerking just from cruising in low RPM in 2nd.

By day 3 everything just clicked and I've been hooning it out ever since, shifting feels normal, been stuck in grid lock traffic several times on the 401 QEW in Canada which is arguably the worst traffic on the entire continent, and it actually felt engaging. Think I'm almost ready to give Heel-Toe a try.

Anyways, I was torn on wether to get an Auto/Manual for a while too, and I justified the purchase by this - in the not too distant future I think Manual transmission cars will be more or less gone, or at the very least in a very niche market. So, for my age (mid 20's no kids or wife etc), this was the last chance to take reigns on my inner childhood wants of driving a fast(ish) cool looking car. I was always a little jealous of the rich kids in highschool who had brand new WRX's, used Supras, G35's, MR2's, etc. Ironically nearly all of those guys I keep in touch with from back when, grew out of driving manuals and now all opt for your typical reliable economy cars. TBH I wouldn't have even bothered doing the research and eventually buying this if it weren't for the price. For a good chunk of my adult life I've actually been really against cars - I fell in with the wrong crowd in college (fucking hippies) and rode a fixed gear bike and held the belief that cars were evil and polluted the environment and all that garbage.

Haha sorry for the Tirade.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by LLYNCES

It's interesting to see all the replies on here. I don't see how buying an AT contributes to the death of manual transmissions, if anything it's the death of having to deal with a third pedal that might be something to worry about.

That being said, AT's 20 years down the line will be able to fully replicate shifting WITH the performance (even exceeding) the performance of a manual transmissions.You still will have full control over your car (shifting) but without having to deal with an extra pedal to do so.

This car (AT) from my experience shifts extremely well in manual mode. My paddle shifts are blazing fast, and the only way an MT driver is getting full control and performance out of this car is if they know how to shift quickly and properly (as with any MT) That's sort of why I went with the AT to begin with after test driving both; I'm just bad at using the clutch and know because of my crappy clutch use that I'd likely be paying for another one down the line, and it would be aggravating to have to deal with in traffic (to me) and I would be getting more performance out of the AT because I can barely drive MT.

With the AT I can literally just chill in traffic while eating and not have to worry about the clutch. Some people don't have this problem as it comes naturally to them, but to me there is just so much #(+# going on in traffic the last thing I want to worry about is my clutch and stalling....also rolling back on hills is annoying when somebody is right on your ass.

I do get quite a bit of crap from people for getting the AT though, I wont lie. It is a bit slower. I get some good gas mileage though which is nice and ripping around corners feels amazing in this car. Toyota/Suburu did a good job with the AT version of this car - they could have done a bit more (dual clutch) but I enjoy my AT. I probably will throw a turbo or supercharger in at some point.

Also I was wondering with the MT (I never tested this) when downshifting does the car still make that amazing noise the AT produces? When downshifting this car sounds absolutely amazing and gets tons of looks.

The idea of AT purchases killing MTs in the future comes from the basic concept of supply and demand. If nobody knows how to or sees the benefit in driving a manual anymore, then the companies will not bother making them. Now, this isn't something that is going to happen over night... or anytime in the very near future. However, there has been a very significant decline in them, particularly in the last 10 years or so.

I suppose the counterpoint to your worry about inexperience/lack of manual ability, which you are certainly entitled to and is a reasonable factor in not buying one, is that you can never get better at something you don't try. I recommend asking someone with a MT FR-S/BRZ if they will try to teach you in it a bit, or just go to a dealer and say you want to test drive one. I was very rusty at driving stick, and had never been any good at it (so it wasn't something that came completely naturally), when I bought my FR-S. This car has by far the best transmission out of any MT car I have ever driven. It is very forgiving, easy to engage, and honestly difficult to stall. I think it's a great car to learn and get the feel for driving manual with.

And yes, it definitely sounds amazing on down shifts. I can't wait to put a Tomei 60s exhaust on it, so it can really clear its throat!

[Blizzard86]

I love the auto. We had a manual jeep and I sucked at it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by TCGMark

Here is something I considered when buying the manual transmission. How much it costs to rebuild an automatic. Every automatic I have owned at some point needed transmission work....

I've had the opposite experience with ATs. I've had two Chevy Astros that went 230,000 and 285,000 miles respectively, with only regular(ish) transmission services, and both were used to tow trailers on a regular basis.


Of all the cars I've owned over the years, my split was about 50/50 on AT vs MT. The only transmission I've had fail of either type is one that my oldest son inadvertently poured engine oil into the AT thinking it was the oil filler cap, then driving it about 200 miles.

I will admit with the exception of a Camaro and the FR-S, most of my ATs were in family cars that did not get abused other than towing or carrying heavy loads. All other "sporty" cars I've owned have been MT, and I loved every one of them.

But to answer @Shark_Bait88, I've never felt more or less in control of a car (sporty or otherwise) just because it had an AT. Perhaps if I was racing them I would have back in the day, but definitely do not feel that way with the FR-S. Admittedly, my dead-pedal did take abuse on more than one occasion when I was in manual mode and muscle memory made me press the pedal when changing gears.

I think it's great we can have this discussion, and respect all those that prefer a MT. Maybe what we need is an AT with a manual mode that includes a clutch!

[Jegan_V]

I've driven both and for this car you don't really lose out picking either one. The AT is geared for fuel economy, that might be a a bit of a downer if you wanted better acceleration. The MT was geared better for acceleration at the expense of highway fuel economy. The automatic is actually one of the better automatics I've used and I've driven a ton of automatics as I do work in rental. It may not be a DCT, but for an automatic it closely mimics one so I was definitely surprised when I used the paddles and the shift came what seemed instantaneous as I was used to stupid delays before changing gears. My issue with paddles though is I don't find them engaging enough, every time I drove the AT I ended up leaving it in D the whole time and forgetting the paddles exist.

Then there's the manual, the shifter has relatively short throws but also happens to be accurate which I really like. The clutch...pretty forgiving, I don't think this is the most forgiving clutch I've used because I think my sister's Honda Civic wins there as it doesn't seem to fault the driver even when you're legitimately bad. I appreciate how light it is, for any Torontonian I have to use 401 and 404 daily, so I get stuck in traffic quite a lot and frankly this clutch never bothered me with its weight. Some people think the clutch engagement point is off, maybe I was ok because I've driven a BMW 328i manual and that had a similar bite point. A welcome change from my old Impreza's extremely unforgiving gearbox. Awesome when driven perfectly but also demoralizing when you get it wrong and sadly I'm not perfect, also that clutch was heavier than this car's. It ended up being the best manual I've got to experience, unfortunately I don't have nearly as many to use as reference.

In the end I chose the MT, I simply preferred its more visceral feel. In a car where feel is paramount to its character, its hard for me to ignore the option of getting even more.

[wxNil]

Originally Posted by Manic

I can top that. I had learned stick ages ago on a janky '67 Beetle. Shift springs were worn/broken so the stick constantly leaned left while in neutral. Therefore, as far as I knew, getting into first was just pushing the gear straight on. Nope.

Left the dealership, stalling in 3rd about a dozen times. Got myself stuck in the middle of an intersection in the left turn stalling in 3rd. Didn't know about the reverse lockout because I was too eager to get my car home, so I didn't know how to get it into reverse. I was actually throwing it into first over and over again. So further I crept into the intersection as I stalled over and over again. Cars honking. Palms sweating. Feverish cursing.



And to this day I do not regret getting the manual.

"I can top that"???... Don't be a one-upper man, not cool, even if it's self-deprecating