FR-S vs RX-8 vs S2000 Review - Everyday Driver

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Ah, thanks man. I thought you were saying forged internals, as some kind of exception

I wonder, is it more or less a rule of thumb these days, that any high revving engine (8000+ rpm) comes with forged internals?

(I'm 99% certain my GS-R doesn't have forged internals, but that's a 22 year old car...)

Ehhh. Depends on price point, really. The expensive cars have forged internals (GT3) while the cheaper cars are using cheaper materials if they're even still revving that high. In America we never got a high-revving EJ with forged internals while Japan continues to get the higher revving EJ models, but now without forged internals.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I wonder, is it more or less a rule of thumb these days, that any high revving engine (8000+ rpm) comes with forged internals?

Toyota's 2ZZ-GE engine in the Elise was rev limited to 8500 RPM and, depending on the model year, the Celica GT-S was rev limited to 7900 or 8200 RPM. They had forged connecting rods and 11.5:1 CR. Not sure that qualifies as full-fledged "forged internals" but TRD offered forged pistons for a 13:1 CR (I might've ultimately gone that route had I kept my Celica GT-S or MR-S and swapped a 2ZZ in).

[WolfpackS2k]

Well put. But these days, what economical car has a high revving engine? The Civic Si no longer has a high revver. I can't think of a single car that redlines above 7500 rpm for less than $60k That would be the E90 M3!

RX8 - dead
S2000 - dead
RSX Type S - dead
8th gen Civic Si - dead
Celica GT-S - dead

am I missing anything?

[Superhatch]

Even in the European and Japanese markets I can't think of a low budget high-revving motor. Anything with the Honda K20 motors are dead regardless of market. The Accord in the European market has an R20A3 which only readlines at 6300.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by Deslock

No car is perfect, and many complained about the S2000's lack of low-end too.

We should appreciate the output, responsiveness, and reliability that Honda accomplished with the F20C, and the balance between emissions, efficiency, (lower but still decent) output, responsiveness, (expected) reliability, and price that Subaru and Toyota acheived with the FA20. Yes, Honda I4s and Porsche boxers have gotten to well over 8k RPM before, but have any other production Subaru boxers revved to 7450 RPM at any price point? (the 0.5L EN05 did, but I believe that was a straight 4)

Other than my personal quirks about the styling, I thought the S2000 was one of the most perfect cars to exist for its time.

And I agree with the guys in this review, the S2K and RX-8 have just enough power as the whole package to not leave you wanting for power.

I grew up with Hondas and love to rev out engines. Yes people thought the S2k was torque-less, but like those bashing the FR-S those people really didn't "get" the car. I was "fighting" that fight on boards in the early 2000's. And here it's deja vu all over again.

---

The trade off for a little power is that the FA20 is a better engine (than the F20/22C) in some respects, gas mileage, better TQ curve (lower end), and lower center of gravity, visibility...etc. So I do respect that.

But the engine in general, seems too utilitarian, and seems to go against the car's nature. It just doesn't seem special to me. The sound is lacking (although it's far from bad) and doesn't really draw me to the car.

Conversely, the engine in the S2000 seemed like a bright red jewel in the engine bay.

But ultimately (again) as the reviewers say, that these sorts of differences are so minute and that any one of these cars would put a smile on your face.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

EJ207, forged internals.

Ah yes, WRC Homologation

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

these days, what economical car has a high revving engine? The Civic Si no longer has a high revver. I can't think of a single car that redlines above 7500 rpm for less than $60k That would be the E90 M3!

RX8 - dead
S2000 - dead
RSX Type S - dead
8th gen Civic Si - dead
Celica GT-S - dead

am I missing anything?

Now that you mention it, the FT86's 7450 RPM and MX5's 7200 RPM are about as high as cheap sports cars get these days.

Originally Posted by 86'd

The trade off for a little power is that the FA20 is a better engine (than the F20/22C) in some respects, gas mileage, better TQ curve (lower end), and lower center of gravity, visibility...etc. So I do respect that.

But the engine in general, seems too utilitarian, and seems to go against the car's nature. It just doesn't seem special to me. The sound is lacking (although it's far from bad) and doesn't really draw me to the car.

Conversely, the engine in the S2000 seemed like a bright red jewel in the engine bay.

But ultimately (again) as the reviewers say, that these sorts of differences are so minute and that any one of these cars would put a smile on your face.

This is cheaper and more of a jack-of-all-trades type of daily driver than the S2000, so to me the engine is suitable.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

(I'm 99% certain my GS-R doesn't have forged internals, but that's a 22 year old car...)

I'd bet it does at least have forged rods, the crank is absolutely without a doubt a forged piece. All Honda cranks used to be forged, not sure about now.
(someone once told me that all Honda engines had all forged internals, but I don't know for sure that it's true.)

EDIT: All B series honda engines have forged cranks and rods.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Now that you mention it, the FT86's 7450 RPM and MX5's 7200 RPM are about as high as cheap sports cars get these days.

If we're going buy the "under 60k rule" then the Cayman is 7400RPM and the 370Z is highest at 7500RPM. The 328i is 7000RPM, the Civic Si is 7000RPM and the Honda Accord Sport is 7000RPM.


So yeah, if you look at it that way the FR-S's 7450 redline isn't that low... interesting.

[P@ul]

Boss Mustang maxes at 7500 Rpm, pretty wicked!

[86'd]

Originally Posted by P@ul

Boss Mustang maxes at 7500 Rpm, pretty wicked!

Forgot about the 302!

[slowbrz]

Is the s2k really that loud in the car? even with a hardtop?

[Sellout]

The S2k hardtop doesn't do much sound deadening. It's also pretty tough to find a factory hardtop these days, which would likely be the quietest hardtop for the S2k. It's not a quiet car. That doesn't mean it's ear splitting, but its not quiet. It was designed to perform, not pick up groceries...

[ZDan]

I just wish they'd made a fixed-roof coupe/hatch version. Even with the top properly sealed against the windshield header, the wind noise is fatiguing on trips.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by slowbrz

Is the s2k really that loud in the car? even with a hardtop?

Yeah it's considerably louder than the BRZ. And my S2000 had an Invidia exhaust. Even with the sound dampers in place it was pretty noisy!