Base Cayman vs BRZ

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I made no mention of the Cayman.

I gave an example. Do you want it more clear? "So, a base Cayman is overpowered?"

They didn't have this target on their statement about overpowered cars and the original statement could not be more clear. So, I don't see any cherry picking or whatever.

[new2subaru]

I'm going to drive my car now

[WolfpackS2k]

FYI I put at least 10,000 miles a year onto my Cayman.

I think what people were alluding to, besides some keeping their Porsches as garage queens, was perhaps that running costs for Porsches are pretty high. Yes they're durable vehicles (more so than any other German car) but if you don't self perform maintenance it's not cheap. And the newer the Porsche the more complex it is, making it harder to self perform maint.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

FYI I put at least 10,000 miles a year onto my Cayman.

I think what people were alluding to, besides some keeping their Porsches as garage queens, was perhaps that running costs for Porsches are pretty high. Yes they're durable vehicles (more so than any other German car) but if you don't self perform maintenance it's not cheap. And the newer the Porsche the more complex it is, making it harder to self perform maint.

Yes - dealer wants ~400 for an oil change.

Example: Mobil 1 0W-40 is ~$45(9 quarts) add filter and O ring for another $12 and I can do my own in ~45 to an hour minutes drinking and having a cigar. If I wasn't partaking in sinful pleasures I could get it done in 20 minutes.

[WolfpackS2k]

I don't have a motorized hydraulic floor life so I probably spend 30-40 minutes just lifting and lowering the car.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I don't have a motorized hydraulic floor life so I probably spend 30-40 minutes just lifting and lowering the car.

I <3 https://www.quickjack.com/

But that's not going to take you longer with any car over another.

[WolfpackS2k]

Well with the Cayman I have to lift all 4 corners. My GS-R, just the front.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Yes - dealer wants ~400 for an oil change.

Example: Mobil 1 0W-40 is ~$45(9 quarts) add filter and O ring for another $12 and I can do my own in ~45 to an hour minutes drinking and having a cigar. If I wasn't partaking in sinful pleasures I could get it done in 20 minutes.

Lol.


You should buy a BRZ and install a Cosworth supercharger and you are done. Maybe some better looking wheels and sticky tires too. It looks that Porsche are too expensive to maintain. Yesterday I had an issue with my overpipe(*) and I 'll need to install a new one. I am sure I could find a used really cheap, but I was in a hurry and not located in US so I ordered a new one. It'll cost me less than a Porsche dealer oil change!


(*) We had to remove the exhaust for some other change and one stud bolt broke. The mechanic fixed it, but it looks I have now an exhaust leak.

[WolfpackS2k]

You should have asked me, lol. I've got my original overpipe just sitting in the garage. Only 9000 miles on it.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

You should have asked me, lol. I've got my original overpipe just sitting in the garage. Only 9000 miles on it.

It doesn't matter. Not too much a cost even for new. My car has even lower miles (5k), never driven during winter and everything still is shining. I can still fit some new parts.

[Ganthrithor]

You don't track and you don't like driving too fast on public roads? Unless you really want the more luxurious interior of the Porsche or crave that flat-six sound, get a BRZ. The Porsche is going to be boring for you at 60 in a 40.

The BRZ will be cheaper to own (I'd get a used one personally to avoid the new-car depreciation, but that's just me), more fun at moderate speeds, and more practical for daily use. There will be more road noise and it's not as fast, but who cares? I think on-balance I have more fun more often in my BRZ than I do in my 997, simply because the 997 needs a very empty road and a willingness to ignore your better judgement in order to really enjoy the car... it's extremely fast, it's got a lot more grip, very tall gearing, and has a "safer" (more understeery) suspension setup. All this means that to make the car really go around corners, enjoy the engine, etc, you're pushing it to much higher speeds, braking more aggressively into corners to make it rotate, etc. It's a lot of fun, but it's really something better left for the track. In the BRZ you can exercise your car-control brain at lower speeds.

Of course, if you've got the cash there's always another option: older, slower Porsches with smaller tyres :P

I still think the most fun car to drive on public roads is our old 1970 911T. It's ~2300lbs and ~120hp... even slower than the BRZ. But it's got unassisted steering, bicycle tyres and no driver aids. Still makes the flat six noises. Super comfortable ride on those big sidewalls. Un-adorned but nice interior. Definitely the best of both worlds, just ridiculously bad "amount of car for the money."

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

You don't track and you don't like driving too fast on public roads? Unless you really want the more luxurious interior of the Porsche or crave that flat-six sound, get a BRZ. The Porsche is going to be boring for you at 60 in a 40.

The BRZ will be cheaper to own (I'd get a used one personally to avoid the new-car depreciation, but that's just me), more fun at moderate speeds, and more practical for daily use. There will be more road noise and it's not as fast, but who cares? I think on-balance I have more fun more often in my BRZ than I do in my 997, simply because the 997 needs a very empty road and a willingness to ignore your better judgement in order to really enjoy the car... it's extremely fast, it's got a lot more grip, very tall gearing, and has a "safer" (more understeery) suspension setup. All this means that to make the car really go around corners, enjoy the engine, etc, you're pushing it to much higher speeds, braking more aggressively into corners to make it rotate, etc. It's a lot of fun, but it's really something better left for the track. In the BRZ you can exercise your car-control brain at lower speeds.

Of course, if you've got the cash there's always another option: older, slower Porsches with smaller tyres

I still think the most fun car to drive on public roads is our old 1970 911T. It's ~2300lbs and ~120hp... even slower than the BRZ. But it's got unassisted steering, bicycle tyres and no driver aids. Still makes the flat six noises. Super comfortable ride on those big sidewalls. Un-adorned but nice interior. Definitely the best of both worlds, just ridiculously bad "amount of car for the money."

100% agree. My frs with header is plenty fast for what I need in 95% of my driving situations. Heck most of the time I'm no more than 60% throttle or I'm easily in ticket territory. I even like the way my car sounds also agree on the older 911. Plenty fast, about the same speed as my frs now (Maybe a bit quicker, it was a 73 2.4S). But even more visceral, and the sound of an aircooled flat 6 at 7300 rpms... 15 years ago they were reasonable. Now it's just stupidity.

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[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

100% agree. My frs with header is plenty fast for what I need in 95% of my driving situations. Heck most of the time I'm no more than 60% throttle or I'm easily in ticket territory. I even like the way my car sounds also agree on the older 911. Plenty fast, about the same speed as my frs now (Maybe a bit quicker, it was a 73 2.4S). But even more visceral, and the sound of an aircooled flat 6 at 7300 rpms... 15 years ago they were reasonable. Now it's just stupidity.

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Yeah, it's a real shame what's happened with the aircooled market. It seems to be correcting, though-- I think the bubble is coming to an end. You still see cars moving now in the $40-80k range, but increasingly it's looking like the idiots who bought average-condition cars with hopes of tripling their money are watching their listings stagnate forever. It's still funny how you see people listing rusted hulks that used to be late-seventies Targas for $25k, though. It ain't quite over yet.

Totally agree about the BRZ. Really the only time I wish it had more power is for overtaking on back-roads. For boring driving it's adequate, and for fun driving it's about as much as you can have and still use it on the road without feeling unreasonable. I haven't done any engine stuff to mine at all... just suspension bits, kept the small wheels, and threw a cat-back on so it makes some noise. In retrospect, I doubt I even needed coilovers-- swaybars and bushings alone would probably have done the trick. It's nice to have a car that'll move around a bit without going more than double the speed limit.

[WolfpackS2k]

On hot days with the AC blasting I would find the BRZ's power quite lacking. Unacceptably so in my opinion, even in daily driving duty.

But I guess that's just my style. I tach out my GS-R all the time in normal around town driving.