What Model Year for track car?

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by ryejeff

Thanks all for the excellent discussion here.

I have a desire similar to the OP's. I want to get a car that I can take to a track and I am somewhat torn between a Miata and a twin.

I already have a '99 Miata (unlike OP, I fit great in it). My Miata is a competitive car for ES autocross. I don't want to put a roll bar in it because the extra weight will compromise its autox performance. And even if I did put a roll bar in it, it has no cruise control and would be a bit tedious to drive to/from any non-local events.

I would prefer a roof and the additional transport space of a twin. But is that roof and space worth the additional cost (of vehicle and consumables) vs. getting another Miata and doing light track-prep?

I do not have any plans to trailer my car, so is there enough comfort/convenience difference in longer transits to sway the decision?

Part of that answer may be how far you need to drive to get to the tracks you want to go to. Shortly after I got my BRZ, I drove it from Central FL to events at NCM in Kentucky, then from there to Watkins Glen, and back home to Central FL. I would not have wanted to do that in a Miata, even an NC Miata.

Another issue is tires. If you plan to or want the option to swap tires at the track, it's possible to be self-contained with the BRZ for wheels / tires / tools. With a Miata, you're looking at dragging along a Harbor Freight trailer.

Brake pads are another issue... depending on what setup you want to run, swapping rear pads on the BRZ is MUCH easier than a Miata. The parking brake function is via a drum configuration with the rear rotor, so it's able to use a caliper style similar to the front, which makes rear pad swaps easy and a matter of seconds - literally.

If my need were to drive the car to and from the track, a twin / 86 is hard to beat and an easy choice. I didn't pick up an NC Miata because I don't like the BRZ... I love the car. I got the NC because it was too good to pass up and I'd been looking for exactly this scenario for a few years now. The last Miata I owned before my NC was a '99. It was a great car, but there's no way I'd drive that to and from the track, compared to what I've experienced with the BRZ.

I love both cars and now I have both. Have I mentioned that one day I hope to come across a deal on a "salvage" 86 car to gut, cage, etc?

[ryejeff]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Part of that answer may be how far you need to drive to get to the tracks you want to go to. Shortly after I got my BRZ, I drove it from Central FL to events at NCM in Kentucky, then from there to Watkins Glen, and back home to Central FL. I would not have wanted to do that in a Miata, even an NC Miata.

Another issue is tires. If you plan to or want the option to swap tires at the track, it's possible to be self-contained with the BRZ for wheels / tires / tools. With a Miata, you're looking at dragging along a Harbor Freight trailer.

Brake pads are another issue... depending on what setup you want to run, swapping rear pads on the BRZ is MUCH easier than a Miata. The parking brake function is via a drum configuration with the rear rotor, so it's able to use a caliper style similar to the front, which makes rear pad swaps easy and a matter of seconds - literally.

If my need were to drive the car to and from the track, a twin / 86 is hard to beat and an easy choice. I didn't pick up an NC Miata because I don't like the BRZ... I love the car. I got the NC because it was too good to pass up and I'd been looking for exactly this scenario for a few years now. The last Miata I owned before my NC was a '99. It was a great car, but there's no way I'd drive that to and from the track, compared to what I've experienced with the BRZ.

I love both cars and now I have both. Have I mentioned that one day I hope to come across a deal on a "salvage" 86 car to gut, cage, etc?

Oooh. This is extremely helpful.

I hope to travel fairly far. MN does not have a glut of tracks, so I imagine a road trip or two each year to a different track (perhaps alone, perhaps with son). Maybe actually see some of this country...

[redlined600]

Originally Posted by ryejeff

Thanks all for the excellent discussion here.

I have a desire similar to the OP's. I want to get a car that I can take to a track and I am somewhat torn between a Miata and a twin.

I already have a '99 Miata (unlike OP, I fit great in it). My Miata is a competitive car for ES autocross. I don't want to put a roll bar in it because the extra weight will compromise its autox performance. And even if I did put a roll bar in it, it has no cruise control and would be a bit tedious to drive to/from any non-local events.

I would prefer a roof and the additional transport space of a twin. But is that roof and space worth the additional cost (of vehicle and consumables) vs. getting another Miata and doing light track-prep?

I do not have any plans to trailer my car, so is there enough comfort/convenience difference in longer transits to sway the decision?

You know my history a bit and will say if you aren't going to trailer then comfort wise the twins hands down. X10 if you're going to start bringing your son (very jealous btw). Additionally, if you're driving the twins are much quieter, which wears you down less.

As said before the Miata is cheaper to run, especially brake costs. I miss that, as well as it was easier to tow.

My frs is about 9 sec faster around road America than my Miata was.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by ryejeff

Oooh. This is extremely helpful.

I hope to travel fairly far. MN does not have a glut of tracks, so I imagine a road trip or two each year to a different track (perhaps alone, perhaps with son). Maybe actually see some of this country...

In that case, an 86 car is probably the way to go. I wouldn't necessarily discount early year 86 cars. The "Chin BRZ" (2013 BRZ)...

http://www.sportscarmag-digital.com/...015?pg=22#pg22

had some misfire issues. To solve that, one tactic was to remove the hood at Sebring, in the summer, and see whether the misfire persisted. It didn't. So, after that hood vents were installed. Misfire problem solved... apparently it was heat related, I guess. If you compare the coil pack harness from a '13 BRZ to a '16, (which I have directly in cars side by side) the '16 coil pack harness is different... much more robust. Whatever the case, adding cooling to the '13 BRZ hood area solved the misfire issue.

Also, a very reputable tuner has mentioned to me that that the '16 is a good one to get from a mechanical and ECU standpoint. There are some changes in the '17 ECU that are more challenging... Take that and my ignorance / heresay for what it's worth...

[ryejeff]

Originally Posted by redlined600

You know my history a bit and will say if you aren't going to trailer then comfort wise the twins hands down. X10 if you're going to start bringing your son (very jealous btw). Additionally, if you're driving the twins are much quieter, which wears you down less.

As said before the Miata is cheaper to run, especially brake costs. I miss that, as well as it was easier to tow.

My frs is about 9 sec faster around road America than my Miata was.

Thanks a ton! I have been meaning to email you about this topic!

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

In that case, an 86 car is probably the way to go. I wouldn't necessarily discount early year 86 cars. The "Chin BRZ" (2013 BRZ)...

http://www.sportscarmag-digital.com/...015?pg=22#pg22

had some misfire issues. To solve that, one tactic was to remove the hood at Sebring, in the summer, and see whether the misfire persisted. It didn't. So, after that hood vents were installed. Misfire problem solved... apparently it was heat related, I guess. If you compare the coil pack harness from a '13 BRZ to a '16, (which I have directly in cars side by side) the '16 coil pack harness is different... much more robust. Whatever the case, adding cooling to the '13 BRZ hood area solved the misfire issue.

Also, a very reputable tuner has mentioned to me that that the '16 is a good one to get from a mechanical and ECU standpoint. There are some changes in the '17 ECU that are more challenging... Take that and my ignorance / heresay for what it's worth...

Thanks Jim--I remember talking to the Chin folks about their BRZ back in 2016 when I did VIR and Road Atlanta with them back to back and was suffering constant coil pack issues in the 95+F temperatures. I probably cleared the code 4-5 times, but once it starts happening, it will keep on happening. (And as you probably know, when the coil pack pops a CEL the stability control briefly fires, usually grabbing the rear brakes. And going down into the Esses at Road Atlanta is not a fun place for it to happen). An after market header sitting right underneath the A1 coil pack position doesn't help with heat build up either.

I went through a big back and forth with my shop at the end of the season last year to see if it was even possible to swap the the wiring harness from a 2015+ car onto my MY2013, but they ultimately decided it could end up being an expensive and labor intensive experiment that didn't actually work. So I'm having hood vents installed. From what I've seen, they're only partially effective but after replacing the A1 pack 3 times (4x?) now, I guess this is the next step. I had the header ceramic coated last year and that didn't really help.

FWIW, as it's part of the discussion, my car was built during the 3rd week of January 2013 and it DID have the updated tune from the factory. There was a a way to find out, I think the factory tune ended with a 1C or something--too lazy to look it up at the moment. So even mid 2013 cars should, in theory, avoid DI seal issues. But buying a newer car with the updated wiring harness is also something worth considering.

[ryejeff]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Thanks Jim--I remember talking to the Chin folks about their BRZ back in 2016 when I did VIR and Road Atlanta with them back to back and was suffering constant coil pack issues in the 95+F temperatures. I probably cleared the code 4-5 times, but once it starts happening, it will keep on happening. (And as you probably know, when the coil pack pops a CEL the stability control briefly fires, usually grabbing the rear brakes. And going down into the Esses at Road Atlanta is not a fun place for it to happen). An after market header sitting right underneath the A1 coil pack position doesn't help with heat build up either.

I went through a big back and forth with my shop at the end of the season last year to see if it was even possible to swap the the wiring harness from a 2015+ car onto my MY2013, but they ultimately decided it could end up being an expensive and labor intensive experiment that didn't actually work. So I'm having hood vents installed. From what I've seen, they're only partially effective but after replacing the A1 pack 3 times (4x?) now, I guess this is the next step. I had the header ceramic coated last year and that didn't really help.

FWIW, as it's part of the discussion, my car was built during the 3rd week of January 2013 and it DID have the updated tune from the factory. There was a a way to find out, I think the factory tune ended with a 1C or something--too lazy to look it up at the moment. So even mid 2013 cars should, in theory, avoid DI seal issues. But buying a newer car with the updated wiring harness is also something worth considering.

Again, thanks for the very useful info! What model year do you need to avoid (or minimize) the coil pack issues?

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by redlined600

My frs is about 9 sec faster around road America than my Miata was.

That's interesting. What do you attribute such a big difference to?

[14stu]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Thanks Jim--I remember talking to the Chin folks about their BRZ back in 2016 when I did VIR and Road Atlanta with them back to back and was suffering constant coil pack issues in the 95+F temperatures. I probably cleared the code 4-5 times, but once it starts happening, it will keep on happening. (And as you probably know, when the coil pack pops a CEL the stability control briefly fires, usually grabbing the rear brakes. And going down into the Esses at Road Atlanta is not a fun place for it to happen). An after market header sitting right underneath the A1 coil pack position doesn't help with heat build up either.

I went through a big back and forth with my shop at the end of the season last year to see if it was even possible to swap the the wiring harness from a 2015+ car onto my MY2013, but they ultimately decided it could end up being an expensive and labor intensive experiment that didn't actually work. So I'm having hood vents installed. From what I've seen, they're only partially effective but after replacing the A1 pack 3 times (4x?) now, I guess this is the next step. I had the header ceramic coated last year and that didn't really help.

FWIW, as it's part of the discussion, my car was built during the 3rd week of January 2013 and it DID have the updated tune from the factory. There was a a way to find out, I think the factory tune ended with a 1C or something--too lazy to look it up at the moment. So even mid 2013 cars should, in theory, avoid DI seal issues. But buying a newer car with the updated wiring harness is also something worth considering.

I had an issue with coilpacks too, but my issue was resolved (at least temporarily) by a full replacement of all of them and the wiring harness all under warranty (I'm in an early build 2014, I have ceramic coated JDL UEL headers and no hood vents, I do run an oil cooler though).

I've done about a dozen trackdays since the warranty work and I haven't had the CEL return.

[ryejeff]

Originally Posted by TommyW

That's interesting. What do you attribute such a big difference to?

And, was that with your Miata in full STR spec?

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by ryejeff

Again, thanks for the very useful info! What model year do you need to avoid (or minimize) the coil pack issues?

I believe it was redesigned for MY2015, but hopefully somebody can confirm.

FWIW, I think few people with the stock header suffer coil pack problems. It's usually a combination of:

- After market header
- Driving on track where the car is constantly pushing close to redline for extended periods.
- Driving under those conditions with high ambient temperatures and high humidity.

Fortunately the coil packs aren't hugely expensive. They're almost a consumable. But it's just a hassle.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by 14stu

I had an issue with coilpacks too, but my issue was resolved (at least temporarily) by a full replacement of all of them and the wiring harness all under warranty (I'm in an early build 2014, I have ceramic coated JDL UEL headers and no hood vents, I do run an oil cooler though).

I've done about a dozen trackdays since the warranty work and I haven't had the CEL return.

My shop ultimately came to the conclusion that it may not be the coil pack per se, but the heat build up eventually wearing down the wiring harness. FWIW, they also replaced my spark plugs and the plug under the A1 coilpack was particularly fouled. Since the plugs were replaced, I've done 9 days on track without popping a code.

So I'm hoping the combination of the coated header, hood vents and fresh plugs does the trick.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

FWIW, I think few people with the stock header suffer coil pack problems. It's usually a combination of:

I've had 2x coilpacks fail on my stock 2013 (12/12 build), I've only done 5x track days and then I started autocrossing, it was the track days that killed them, sustained high load high rpm driving like you mention (there's little humidity here). I haven't done a track day since swapping them to a newer part number, but I know there's skepticism that the newer parts on the '13-'14 cars are any more durable.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

My shop ultimately came to the conclusion that it may not be the coil pack per se, but the heat build up eventually wearing down the wiring harness. FWIW, they also replaced my spark plugs and the plug under the A1 coilpack was particularly fouled. Since the plugs were replaced, I've done 9 days on track without popping a code.

So I'm hoping the combination of the coated header, hood vents and fresh plugs does the trick.

I am trying to find another hood to vent for track days. I haven't had the coil pack issue yet but I would like to prevent it. Especially with the nameless header, I have got everything wrapped in heat tape, even wiring.