FT86 vs. RX-7 FD - Page 8 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Choco · 05-25-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lido

I never realized how many of us also own FD's but I am in the same boat.

image by mvf9884, on Flickr
My FD is fun but not for regular use. The BRZ fills that hole in my heart. =P

I too have a red FD and blue BRZ.

sactownbwoy · 07-27-2014, 07:00 PM

I have a BRZ now but owned a '94 R2 in Japan. My plan was to buy another one before I turned 40 (5 more years), but because my wife wanted to stay in San Diego and I will start working at Camp Pendleton I traded in my '07 Ram 1500 for a '14 BRZ Limited.

I loved my FD and I think I may still get one in 5 years. There were just little things about it that made it a great car. When I sat in the BRZ at the dealer it brought me back to my days with the FD. Damn I miss that car

FD

BRZ

EarlQHan · 04-20-2015, 11:19 AM

I have a base 93 RX-7 and 13 BRZ LTD.

The FD is mildly modded. Bought it with the engine rebuilt with OEM internals and a light street port around 75K (now has 82K) with basic bolt-ons like IC, full exhaust, and coilovers. Reliability mods include silicone vacuum lines, upgraded radiator, R1/R2 twin oil coolers. No major problems so far, even took it to the Smoky Mountains earlier this month, putting on about 2000 miles in five days. BRZ is stock.

The cars are very similar in terms of driving feel, but what the FD gains in power and steering feel, it loses in terms of chassis stiffness, noise (panel squeaks), and fuel economy. Due to the stock sequential turbos, even the power curves are similar (FD has a torque dip too). It's just the FD's curve is offset higher. The FD isn't necessarily harder to maintain, it's just higher maintenance. But, there's always a lingering fear that anything could break at any time, so I drive the car with more respect and do more routine maintenance checks. You have to let the car fully warm up and cool down, change the oil sooner; I add premix even though the factory oil injectors are intact; etc. It's not difficult, it just takes up more time. It doesn't mean I don't drive it hard, it just means I have to be more in tune with the car. Unlike a piston engine, a rotary lives longer if you push it harder (high RPMs clean carbon deposits). As long as it's properly maintained, there's no reason you can't go 80K+ miles between engine rebuilds. Now that might sound crazy to some, but considering I drive the FD maybe 5K miles a year, that's over 15 years between rebuilds.

The BRZ has a much stiffer chassis and even though I have coilovers on the FD, the BRZ feels about as stiff (not a good/bad thing, it just is). However, there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles over bumps. This is what twenty years in chassis development and new bushings and panels gets you. The steering is good but the FD is great; there's no real comparison. It's like comparing a FLAC audio file vs listening to an artist recording live at the studio. The BRZ rear end feels sloppier than the FD, it's always shimmying over bumps, whereas the FD feels more planted and solid. This is something that's engineered into the BRZ, so it can be tuned out. The clutch in the BRZ feels a bit vague, but all three pedals feel better. They're firm but light; they're heavy and rubbery in the FD. And the BRZ gearbox is a gem to use, although I wish it was slightly heavier but gear changes are so smooth. I think the gearbox is the worst part about the FD, it's precise, but notchy and the synchros are bad (especially 5th) and can grind. It has cup holders, Bluetooth, navigation, back up camera, and seat heaters. One thing about the interior, possibly because Toyota did the styling, it's the first Subaru (of 7) I've had with major blind spots. Since there's so much glass in the FD, that's not really a concern. As far as the exterior, the BRZ turns heads but the FD breaks necks. Even though the FD is 20 years older, the stereo is still better though lol (I have the non Bose system too). The BRZ's acceleration is underwhelming, I think my roommate's 2.5 Mazda 3 is just as fast. But I don't mind, I commute in the car so I rarely get over 3K RPM. It has 2/3 the power of the FD, but 3/2 the fuel economy. Then there's the fact since it's a new car, you can just get in it and go.

I like both, they're great at what they do. The BRZ is a modern version of the N/A FC or like a Miata coupe. It is an everyman's every day sports car. You can drive the crap out of it on the way to the grocery store. The RX-7 is more like a Cayman. It could be a daily driver, but it can't be your only car. It is a science experiment in the form of an uncompromised sports car. There's nothing to do but drive.

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions, the best kind of first world problems. So which do I prefer? When I'm not in a rush to get somewhere, the weather is good and the mood strikes, I jump at the chance to drive the RX-7. But living in Michigan, that's not often; so the majority of the time, I get in the BRZ.

Sideways&Smiling · 04-20-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

I have a base 93 RX-7 and 13 BRZ LTD.

The FD is mildly modded. Had the engine rebuilt with OEM internals and a light street port around 75K (now has 82K) with basic bolt-ons like IC, full exhaust, and coilovers. Reliability mods include silicone vacuum lines, upgraded radiator, R1/R2 twin oil coolers. No major problems so far, even took it to the Smoky Mountains earlier this month, putting on about 2000 miles in five days. BRZ is stock.

The cars are very similar in terms of driving feel, but what the FD gains in power and steering feel, it loses in terms of chassis stiffness, noise (panel squeaks), and fuel economy. Due to the stock sequential turbos, even the power curves are similar (FD has a torque dip too). It's just the FD's curve is offset higher. The FD isn't necessarily harder to maintain, it's just higher maintenance. But, there's always a lingering fear that anything could break at any time, so I drive the car with more respect and do more routine maintenance checks. You have to let the car fully warm up and cool down, change the oil sooner; I add premix even though the factory oil injectors are intact; etc. It's not difficult, it just takes up more time. It doesn't mean I don't drive it hard, it just means I have to be more in tune with the car. Unlike a piston engine, a rotary lives longer if you push it harder (high RPMs clean carbon deposits). As long as it's properly maintained, there's no reason you can't go 80K+ miles between engine rebuilds. Now that might sound crazy to some, but considering I drive the FD maybe 5K miles a year, that's over 15 years between rebuilds.

The BRZ has a much stiffer chassis and even though I have coilovers on the FD, the BRZ feels about as stiff (not a good/bad thing, it just is). However, there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles over bumps. This is what twenty years in chassis development and new bushings and panels gets you. The steering is good but the FD is great; there's no real comparison. It's like comparing a FLAC audio file vs listening to an artist recording live at the studio. The BRZ rear end feels sloppier than the FD, it's always shimmying over bumps, whereas the FD feels more planted and solid. This is something that's engineered into the BRZ, so it can be tuned out. The clutch in the BRZ feels a bit vague, but all three pedals feel better. They're firm but light; they're heavy and rubbery in the FD. And the BRZ gearbox is a gem to use, although I wish it was slightly heavier but gear changes are so smooth. I think the gearbox is the worst part about the FD, it's precise, but notchy and the synchros are bad (especially 5th) and can grind. It has cup holders, Bluetooth, navigation, back up camera, and seat heaters. One thing about the interior, possibly because Toyota did the styling, it's the first Subaru (of 7) I've had with major blind spots. Since there's so much glass in the FD, that's not really a concern. As far as the exterior, the BRZ turns heads but the FD breaks necks. Even though the FD is 20 years older, the stereo is still better though lol (I have the non Bose system too). The BRZ's acceleration is underwhelming, I think my roommate's 2.5 Mazda 3 is just as fast. But I don't mind, I commute in the car so I rarely get over 3K RPM. It has 2/3 the power of the FD, but 3/2 the fuel economy. Then there's the fact since it's a new car, you can just get in it and go.

I like both, they're great at what they do. The BRZ is a modern version of the N/A FC or like a Miata coupe. It is an everyman's every day sports car. You can drive the crap out of it on the way to the grocery store. The RX-7 is more like a Cayman. It could be a daily driver, but it can't be your only car. It is a science experiment in the form of an uncompromised sports car. There's nothing to do but drive.

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions, the best kind of first world problems. So which do I prefer? When I'm not in a rush to get somewhere, the weather is good and the mood strikes, I jump at the chance to drive the RX-7. But living in Michigan, that's not often; so the majority of the time, I get in the BRZ.

The RX7 is just a more serious sports car. Man, I want one so bad. Doesn't even need the rotary lol... an F20/F22c or SR20DET/VET or even an LSx powered FD RX7 would be awesome. I think this will be my next project car if I can find a good shell.

We need a new semi-affordable RWD car in the same vein as the RX7/S2000... front-mid engine, double wishbones all around, and hyper-precise handling... preferably with a high-revving engine & turbo. The Miata is good, but its lack of power holds it back from fulfilling what this type of car offers. Really need new serious sports cars from Honda and Mazda....

driftartist · 04-20-2015, 04:41 PM

honda is bringing a turbo type r to america. my showroom is getting one this fall....

Turbowned · 04-20-2015, 08:38 PM

The RX-7 is awesome; I used to have an FC Turbo. Only problem is if you're tall, you won't fit. Like, at all. Mine killed my back and I tried my friend's FD with the same results. Maybe a Bride super low seat bracket would help?

fatoni · 04-20-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbowned

The RX-7 is awesome; I used to have an FC Turbo. Only problem is if you're tall, you won't fit. Like, at all. Mine killed my back and I tried my friend's FD with the same results. Maybe a Bride super low seat bracket would help?

why use brackets at all? just get an ultrashield or the like and bolt it to the floor. then, basically anyone will fit.

funwheeldrive · 04-21-2015, 02:41 AM

It should be relatively easy to import an early FD soon right? Are they cheap in Japan? I've always wanted one, but it's almost impossible to find a stock one these days.

reni · 04-21-2015, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It should be relatively easy to import an early FD soon right? Are they cheap in Japan? I've always wanted one, but it's almost impossible to find a stock one these days.

It would only be worth it in Canada, where you can already import a '99-02 model (Series 8).

True, an early model FD that is still clean will cost way less in Japan, but with the cost/hassle of dealing with importing, I'd rather just pay more for a clean US model, plus there is the issue of having to deal with RHD

Deep Six · 04-21-2015, 07:46 AM

I'll just drop these here for your enjoyment:

rlpaul · 04-21-2015, 08:05 AM

Am I the only one that thinks the last one looks best, despite it being more stock looking?

The lime green FD looks like it wants to be on a Le Mans course. Zoom Zoom!

WolfpackS2k · 04-23-2015, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftartist

honda is bringing a turbo type r to america. my showroom is getting one this fall....

No offense, but a FWD hot hatch doesn't belong in any conversation about a RWD lightweight coupe with double wishbones all around.

Also, I think the best looking FDs are the stock ones.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EarlQHan · 04-25-2015, 03:34 PM

Mine's stock-ish...

Rookie84 · 04-26-2015, 05:38 AM

I owned a '89 FC TII and '93 FD with LS6 swap years ago. In terms of driving feel, yes, they are both comparable to my BRZ. I have good feedback to know what exactly each tire is doing. The power, no comparison, as the numbers clearly show. However, BRZ feels much tighter due to better chassis stiffness.

Would I own another RX-7, hell yes, if I can find the right car. It is old but it is still very capable and has a charm that cannot be found in modern cars. Would I trade my BRZ for it? Not really. I can enjoy my BRZ daily without worrying about things breaking left and right. Although LSX swap solves most of engine reliability problems, still the overall quality is just not there, especially for interior... everything just breaks if you just stare at them too long.

In an ideal world, I would love to have both BRZ and FD, along with a big comfy DD car for family. Wait... that means I just have to find the right RX-7 now.

04-20-2015, 11:19 AM	#101
EarlQHan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: Subarus Location: Nowhere Posts: 189 Thanks: 20 Thanked 129 Times in 66 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have a base 93 RX-7 and 13 BRZ LTD. The FD is mildly modded. Bought it with the engine rebuilt with OEM internals and a light street port around 75K (now has 82K) with basic bolt-ons like IC, full exhaust, and coilovers. Reliability mods include silicone vacuum lines, upgraded radiator, R1/R2 twin oil coolers. No major problems so far, even took it to the Smoky Mountains earlier this month, putting on about 2000 miles in five days. BRZ is stock. The cars are very similar in terms of driving feel, but what the FD gains in power and steering feel, it loses in terms of chassis stiffness, noise (panel squeaks), and fuel economy. Due to the stock sequential turbos, even the power curves are similar (FD has a torque dip too). It's just the FD's curve is offset higher. The FD isn't necessarily harder to maintain, it's just higher maintenance. But, there's always a lingering fear that anything could break at any time, so I drive the car with more respect and do more routine maintenance checks. You have to let the car fully warm up and cool down, change the oil sooner; I add premix even though the factory oil injectors are intact; etc. It's not difficult, it just takes up more time. It doesn't mean I don't drive it hard, it just means I have to be more in tune with the car. Unlike a piston engine, a rotary lives longer if you push it harder (high RPMs clean carbon deposits). As long as it's properly maintained, there's no reason you can't go 80K+ miles between engine rebuilds. Now that might sound crazy to some, but considering I drive the FD maybe 5K miles a year, that's over 15 years between rebuilds. The BRZ has a much stiffer chassis and even though I have coilovers on the FD, the BRZ feels about as stiff (not a good/bad thing, it just is). However, there are absolutely no squeaks or rattles over bumps. This is what twenty years in chassis development and new bushings and panels gets you. The steering is good but the FD is great; there's no real comparison. It's like comparing a FLAC audio file vs listening to an artist recording live at the studio. The BRZ rear end feels sloppier than the FD, it's always shimmying over bumps, whereas the FD feels more planted and solid. This is something that's engineered into the BRZ, so it can be tuned out. The clutch in the BRZ feels a bit vague, but all three pedals feel better. They're firm but light; they're heavy and rubbery in the FD. And the BRZ gearbox is a gem to use, although I wish it was slightly heavier but gear changes are so smooth. I think the gearbox is the worst part about the FD, it's precise, but notchy and the synchros are bad (especially 5th) and can grind. It has cup holders, Bluetooth, navigation, back up camera, and seat heaters. One thing about the interior, possibly because Toyota did the styling, it's the first Subaru (of 7) I've had with major blind spots. Since there's so much glass in the FD, that's not really a concern. As far as the exterior, the BRZ turns heads but the FD breaks necks. Even though the FD is 20 years older, the stereo is still better though lol (I have the non Bose system too). The BRZ's acceleration is underwhelming, I think my roommate's 2.5 Mazda 3 is just as fast. But I don't mind, I commute in the car so I rarely get over 3K RPM. It has 2/3 the power of the FD, but 3/2 the fuel economy. Then there's the fact since it's a new car, you can just get in it and go. I like both, they're great at what they do. The BRZ is a modern version of the N/A FC or like a Miata coupe. It is an everyman's every day sports car. You can drive the crap out of it on the way to the grocery store. The RX-7 is more like a Cayman. It could be a daily driver, but it can't be your only car. It is a science experiment in the form of an uncompromised sports car. There's nothing to do but drive. Sometimes you have to make hard decisions, the best kind of first world problems. So which do I prefer? When I'm not in a rush to get somewhere, the weather is good and the mood strikes, I jump at the chance to drive the RX-7. But living in Michigan, that's not often; so the majority of the time, I get in the BRZ. Last edited by EarlQHan; 04-20-2015 at 11:34 AM.

04-21-2015, 07:46 AM	#108
Deep Six Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 2013 FRS / 2013 427 Vert Location: Orlando Posts: 611 Thanks: 212 Thanked 328 Times in 197 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I'll just drop these here for your enjoyment: __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 2013 FR-S Asphalt BC Coils/Rev Works UEL header/HKS Front Pipe/Racing Brake BBK/Shorai LW Battery/ACT 6 Puck Clutch/FBM Radiator & Oil Pan/JR Oil Cooler/Jackson Racing High Boost C30/Rev Works Built Motor 2016 Audi TTS APR Tuned

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07-27-2014, 07:00 PM	#100
sactownbwoy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited Location: SoCal Posts: 168 Thanks: 112 Thanked 136 Times in 69 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have a BRZ now but owned a '94 R2 in Japan. My plan was to buy another one before I turned 40 (5 more years), but because my wife wanted to stay in San Diego and I will start working at Camp Pendleton I traded in my '07 Ram 1500 for a '14 BRZ Limited. I loved my FD and I think I may still get one in 5 years. There were just little things about it that made it a great car. When I sat in the BRZ at the dealer it brought me back to my days with the FD. Damn I miss that car FD BRZ

04-20-2015, 04:41 PM	#103
driftartist Kurenai Samurai Join Date: May 2012 Drives: Red and manual Location: east bay,ca Posts: 794 Thanks: 186 Thanked 327 Times in 203 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	honda is bringing a turbo type r to america. my showroom is getting one this fall....

04-21-2015, 02:41 AM	#106
funwheeldrive Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Drives: BANNED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH Location: MODS ARE ON A POWER TRIP Posts: 3,447 Thanks: 7,830 Thanked 3,022 Times in 1,409 Posts Mentioned: 38 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	It should be relatively easy to import an early FD soon right? Are they cheap in Japan? I've always wanted one, but it's almost impossible to find a stock one these days.

04-21-2015, 08:05 AM	#109
rlpaul Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Drives: point A to point C. Screw point B! Location: NC Posts: 228 Thanks: 30 Thanked 139 Times in 87 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Am I the only one that thinks the last one looks best, despite it being more stock looking? The lime green FD looks like it wants to be on a Le Mans course. Zoom Zoom!

04-25-2015, 03:34 PM	#111
EarlQHan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: Subarus Location: Nowhere Posts: 189 Thanks: 20 Thanked 129 Times in 66 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Mine's stock-ish...

04-26-2015, 05:38 AM	#112
Rookie84 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Drives: '02 GS300, '12 S80 T5, '15 BRZ 6MT Location: Seoul, South Korea / Jeddah, KSA Posts: 142 Thanks: 81 Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I owned a '89 FC TII and '93 FD with LS6 swap years ago. In terms of driving feel, yes, they are both comparable to my BRZ. I have good feedback to know what exactly each tire is doing. The power, no comparison, as the numbers clearly show. However, BRZ feels much tighter due to better chassis stiffness. Would I own another RX-7, hell yes, if I can find the right car. It is old but it is still very capable and has a charm that cannot be found in modern cars. Would I trade my BRZ for it? Not really. I can enjoy my BRZ daily without worrying about things breaking left and right. Although LSX swap solves most of engine reliability problems, still the overall quality is just not there, especially for interior... everything just breaks if you just stare at them too long. In an ideal world, I would love to have both BRZ and FD, along with a big comfy DD car for family. Wait... that means I just have to find the right RX-7 now.

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