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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 01-29-2019, 09:00 AM   #183
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On a track, the forces exerted on braking hardware and tires goes up exponentially as you go faster. Heavier cars only make this worse.

If you want to track your sports car in any sort of affordable definition, you need to keep consumables cost down. With a heavy sports car that's impossible.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:24 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
On a track, the forces exerted on braking hardware and tires goes up exponentially as you go faster. Heavier cars only make this worse.

If you want to track your sports car in any sort of affordable definition, you need to keep consumables cost down. With a heavy sports car that's impossible.
If you can afford the bigger heavier cars you can afford to track them. If you are just scrimping to make car payments then tracking is a horrible choice of a hobby. The term "affordable" is totally subjective anyway. There are many guys here that could not afford to track a car even if it weighed nothing.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:27 AM   #185
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Yeah I'm gonna respectfully disagree.

A 3800 lb Camaro SS on Michelin Cup tires is gonna destroy those tires after one weekend. Brake pads? Dunno, but probably the same.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:34 AM   #186
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Yeah I'm gonna respectfully disagree.

A 3800 lb Camaro SS on Michelin Cup tires is gonna destroy those tires after one weekend. Brake pads? Dunno, but probably the same.
So? I repeat "affordability" is subjective. What you think is too much money may be pocket change to the guys tracking such cars.

@Dave-ROR does tracking the Camaro put you in the poorhouse? Are you selling all your worldly goods to support your tire and brake habit?
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:38 AM   #187
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Blah blah blah, sure affordability varies.

But increasing the cost of a track weekend from $1500 to $3000 or more, almost exclusively because of consumables, is a roadblock for a lot of people.

Sidenote, since I have your attention: Why the hell is gasoline so expensive in British Columbia? I was up in Whistler and Vancouver last week for vacation and geez, doing the math in my head regular fuel is roughly $4.50-5.00/gallon (US currency).
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:42 AM   #188
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So? I repeat "affordability" is subjective. What you think is too much money may be pocket change to the guys tracking such cars.

@Dave-ROR does tracking the Camaro put you in the poorhouse? Are you selling all your worldly goods to support your tire and brake habit?
Time will tell.. Tires are ~1180 shipped for a set of the OEM tires, and they are plenty good enough for most people (I have no problem running them, yeah I could shave a few more seconds but at a 2-3x tire budget - don't care that much). For tire wear, I wore the front original set out after 6 days at the track and ~5,500 street miles running an aggressive alignment the whole time. The original rears are still good for another several track days.

Rotors are the expensive bit at $330 each for the fronts. However, that's a two piece and comes with a new hat each time so not bad for what it is. Also after 7-8 days at the track so far my rotors are looking great.

Front pads are $330 a set for Ferodo DSUNO. I've been through just over 1 set in that same 7-8 days. Technically I've run two sets, but both down to 40%. I don't want to kill those expensive rotors by going metal to metal so I'll need to start checking each session to wear them down just enough...

So I could switch to an Essex AP racing setup on the Camaro and save $ over time, but so far the wear rates just don't support doing so when one considers I have 3 track ready cars (soon 4...).
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:42 AM   #189
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Blah blah blah, sure affordability varies.

But increasing the cost of a track weekend from $1500 to $3000 or more, almost exclusively because of consumables, is a roadblock for a lot of people.
No doubt it is but it also isn't to a lot of people. The simple point is just because you think it costs too much does not mean it costs too much.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:46 AM   #190
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If you can afford the bigger heavier cars you can afford to track them. If you are just scrimping to make car payments then tracking is a horrible choice of a hobby. The term "affordable" is totally subjective anyway. There are many guys here that could not afford to track a car even if it weighed nothing.


I also disagree. Did you read that thread with the guy that tracks a grand sport? If I recall he was claiming consumables (just consumables) run him $450/hour. Someone could easily afford a grand sport but not be interested in spending $450/hr in consumables alone. He now owns a BRZ for tracking.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:51 AM   #191
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No doubt it is but it also isn't to a lot of people. The simple point is just because you think it costs too much does not mean it costs too much.
Just figured out an estimate for my Camaro.

Track: $650 for two days
Hotel: $300
Tires: F: $240, R: $120
Rotors: $66 (fronts only, rears have no visible wear so I have no idea how long they'll last)
Pads: $150 (probably high but whatever)

So that's $1,526 so far..

Gas: $384 (based on 8 fillups over the weekend)

So approx $1,910. And that's for a car fast enough to pass Cayman GT4s and andy 911 south of the GT2/GT3/Turbo.

Of that 950 is event fees and hotel, so less than $1k in total comsumables including fuel.

My old BRZ was cheaper, but with much less grippy tires. Add Cup2s or similar to the BRZ and I doubt my costs change that much. Fuel and pads will be the biggest differences probably.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:53 AM   #192
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I applaud Mazda for giving the Miata more power, but give it a few years and people will be expecting more power, while keeping the cost and weight down.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:54 AM   #193
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I also disagree. Did you read that thread with the guy that tracks a grand sport? If I recall he was claiming consumables (just consumables) run him $450/hour. Someone could easily afford a grand sport but not be interested in spending $450/hr in consumables alone. He now owns a BRZ for tracking.
So that guy didn't that means nobody does? Nobody tracks Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, BMWs, or any other car that costs more for consumables? Nobody?
I get that it would cost too much for some but that DOES NOT mean the cars are not trackable.
The whole idea of saying nobody will or should based upon personal ideals is totally ridiculous.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:55 AM   #194
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I also disagree. Did you read that thread with the guy that tracks a grand sport? If I recall he was claiming consumables (just consumables) run him $450/hour. Someone could easily afford a grand sport but not be interested in spending $450/hr in consumables alone. He now owns a BRZ for tracking.
Based on my math, I'm under $200/hr in consumables. Different car, but even heavier.

Edit: Also worth noting, my rotor estimes are high. Most people get 15 days before tossing them, I was using 10 days for the math. Fuel might be a little high also.
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:55 AM   #195
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I agree I would take 27hp plus they increased the redline as well by completely redesigning the internals. We only got 5hp by tweaking the manifold and some gears. 27hp on a 2400lb car is hugely impressive and they barely raised the price and weight. Hats off to Mazda


Keep in mind that the Mazda motor STILL makes significantly less specific power. 90.5 HP/l vs 102.5 HP/l for the twins. Especially for a boxer that's damn impressive. Before 2010 even Porsche didn't have an NA boxer for sale over 100hp/l except for the GT3. If the twins had as much displacement/ton as the Miata they'd have 237hp. Our engine doesn't make that much power, but it sure tries hard!
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:59 AM   #196
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Keep in mind that the Mazda motor STILL makes significantly less specific power. 90.5 HP/l vs 102.5 HP/l for the twins. Especially for a boxer that's damn impressive. Before 2010 even Porsche didn't have an NA boxer for sale over 100hp/l except for the GT3. If the twins had as much displacement/ton as the Miata they'd have 237hp. Our engine doesn't make that much power, but it sure tries hard!
And neither can match a 23 year old Honda.
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