Considering a FRS as a starter car for auto-x.

[mechaghost]

You can also look up other drivers education courses setup by your local car clubs. I know here in Seattle I get so much seat time with the porsche club doing their DE class. We do it for around 6 hour of unadultered driving. High speed oval, braking, auto-x track, slalom, and skid pad.

I also started doing AutoX with the BRZ, and I kept most of it stock for the first year. I think having the skinny stock tires exposes errors in technique better than the sticky tires.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

It's not the entrance fees that make autoX cheaper, it's the ware and upkeep on the car that is WAY WAY cheaper. AutoX is WAY more expensive per driving time, but it's a WAY cheaper car to maintain. I've done 40+ AutoX events since getting my FR-S and I can't imagine the cost of 40 track days!!!!

Because of that it's why I recommend people start with autoX. It's a great launching pad without lots of ware on the car. It's also way easier to benchmark personal progress.

I don't mean to overstep my bounds here, but do you mind compiling and posting a list of your consumables costs? This is more out of pure curiosity than anything.

I'll do the same for all of the consumables CSG has gone through via various BRZ/FRS that are loaned to us, as well as our own BRZ.


There may be a bit of bias here, as my progression went in this order:

Canyoning -> track days -> autocross

[mp22]

I read that for autocrossing, the m3 clear bra comes highly recommended. Any reason it's highly recommended for autoX in particular? I haven't heard this about taking the car to a track day or anything.

[qoncept]

I do autox because

- It's cheaper (per event)
- More accessible (easier to get in to, and there isn't a track within 4 hours of me)
- Lower risk (lower speeds and if you go "off" you're still sitting in a parking lot)

I DON'T do it because of:
- Less wear (I've gone through a TON of tires in my years of autox - I really think your car sees more wear at autox)
- Greater perceived value (seat time per dollar sucks)

Basically, I can go out for an afternoon and toss the car around without worrying about anything other than if my tires are going to last. I don't have to watch my budget, I don't have to pack for a weekend, I don't have to take time off work and I don't have to worry about how I'm getting home if I crash the car. I can also entertain myself for 5 Sundays for less than a single track day. I said the seat time sucks, but I'm hanging out with like-minded people for the entire day more often.

And.. I think I would probably like track days more. But there is a higher barrier to entry for me. My schedule really doesn't let me take a whole weekend like I'd need since tracks are all so far away.

My advice to the OP: Don't modify anything. Get a catback if you want more noise. Replace the tires because they suck. That's it. You'll have a car that should be reasonable competative at the local level, very well sorted and balanced, cheap to run and repeatable. You'll have a very good platform for gauging your improvement.

I wouldn't bother with the radiator until you're ready to start doing track days.

[BlaineWasHere]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't mean to overstep my bounds here, but do you mind compiling and posting a list of your consumables costs? This is more out of pure curiosity than anything.

I'll do the same for all of the consumables CSG has gone through via various BRZ/FRS that are loaned to us, as well as our own BRZ.


There may be a bit of bias here, as my progression went in this order:

Canyoning -> track days -> autocross

Yes I will do this, but I don't have time today. I'll do it tomorrow. I'd like to compare.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mp22

I read that for autocrossing, the m3 clear bra comes highly recommended. Any reason it's highly recommended for autoX in particular? I haven't heard this about taking the car to a track day or anything.

Because if (when) you hit a cone, it'll leave a mark on the bra instead of the car.

I did autox before, and my cone marks were all on the side of the car... long streaks... where I have no clear bra

[xwd]

I would autocross with the car stock a couple times, but if you are really serious about it I wouldn't autocross on the stock tires for very long, they aren't very good. The car is going to behave much differently once you switch to better tires, moreso than any other modification.

I tell people to start off autocrossing because you learn car control in a venue where you aren't likely to cause major damage. You'll see a wide variety of turns and lots of them within a short amount of time. Many regions run novice schools/events where you get a lot more runs and with an instructor.

HPDE is fun in its own right. The speeds are higher and it will teach you more track related techniques.

Cone marks come off pretty easily, I have yet to get one down the side of the car, mostly in the front or rear.

[MR_X]

Lots of good advice here.

Here is my take on the Auto-x vs Track. Track is my ultimate goal. All the experience I have is canyon runs and those hold me back because I'm always concerned about other traffic, bicyclist, cops, dirt/sand on the road and not setting a good example for my son, daughter and others. So I would like to get a feel for it with Auto-x as well as for my kids (kids are 14/12 and can drive the crap out of karitng). Also auto-x is more accessible (hour drive vs 4 +). The initial cost is cheaper and can work my way up to moding the car for HPDE. Like stated before, instructors are readily available at no cost to me. I tried once to go straight to HPDE in my RX-8 and my brakes didn't like it.

I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to temps specially out here (113 here right now and this is a good day). So radiator and oil cooler are going to be my first mods regardless what everyone tells me. Second is going to be a set of rims and tires because I can't stand the look of he OEM ones. 17x9 RPF1 with RS3 in 245s square. Then brakes and suspension. Suspension I still researching on what I will need but on brakes I know what I want. I have pretty much my modding path planed out. Control items first them hp upgrades.

[G_Ride]

Both autox and track are fun. Both have their own issues with wear and tear, cost, etc. There's no need to debate which is more expensive or causes the most wear. Both do a good job of doing both.

[BlaineWasHere]

Ok, CSG Mike asked me to add up all my AutoX expenditures, particularly the consumables, to see how it adds up to to a track duty car! I think this might be painful but here we go!

Mods (towards STX prep):
KW V3 .................................................. ... $1,900
17x9 RPF1s in orange (for dry tires)..............$1,340
17x9 Rota Grid (for wet tires).......................$850
Strano Parts FSB.........................................$189
Whiteline Camber Top Mounts.......................$197
Works axle back.........................................$400
ARP extended Studs....................................$129
Various parts installations............................$600
Alignment (x2)...........................................$20 0


Total............................................. ............$5,715

Consumables:
Entrance Fees X40 events (estimated)..........$1,600
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
255/40/17 Dunlop ZIIs (Dry).......................$800
245/40/17 Falken 456s (Wet)......................$550
Broken rear axle (drivers side)(with labor).....$700
Passenger side fender liner X2......................$109
Various body clips from hitting cones.............$50
Various tire installation................................$400

Total............................................. ...........$5,509


So keep in mind that my car is modded for STX, and not very well at that. I only have about 50% of the prep possible. But a track car would certainly have different mods (notice I have no cooling or brake mods). I'm lacking a few more suspension bits and ALL of the power bolt-ons the class allows.

This was pretty eye opening, I guess I spent a lot more on consumables than I though... This was over a 13 month period also BTW. However, NO REGRETS! This summer was a great summer of racing!!!!


So have my latest video just for fun!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2H76O9BeLI"]Crowsautox - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by MR_X

I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to temps specially out here (113 here right now and this is a good day). So radiator and oil cooler are going to be my first mods regardless what everyone tells me. Second is going to be a set of rims and tires because I can't stand the look of he OEM ones. 17x9 RPF1 with RS3 in 245s square. Then brakes and suspension. Suspension I still researching on what I will need but on brakes I know what I want. I have pretty much my modding path planed out. Control items first them hp upgrades.

Stickier tires will stress your brakes more. My understanding is that Qualcomm sees really high speeds compared to most Autocross courses...

[MR_X]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Ok, CSG Mike asked me to add up all my AutoX expenditures, particularly the consumables, to see how it adds up to to a track duty car! I think this might be painful but here we go!

Mods (towards STX prep):
KW V3 .................................................. ... $1,900
17x9 RPF1s in orange (for dry tires)..............$1,340
17x9 Rota Grid (for wet tires).......................$850
Strano Parts FSB.........................................$189
Whiteline Camber Top Mounts.......................$197
Works axle back.........................................$400
ARP extended Studs....................................$129
Various parts installations............................$600
Alignment (x2)...........................................$20 0


Total............................................. ............$5,715

Consumables:
Entrance Fees X40 events (estimated)..........$1,600
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
255/40/17 Dunlop ZIIs (Dry).......................$800
245/40/17 Falken 456s (Wet)......................$550
Broken rear axle (drivers side)(with labor).....$700
Passenger side fender liner X2......................$109
Various body clips from hitting cones.............$50
Various tire installation................................$400

Total............................................. ...........$5,509


So keep in mind that my car is modded for STX, and not very well at that. I only have about 50% of the prep possible. But a track car would certainly have different mods (notice I have no cooling or brake mods). I'm lacking a few more suspension bits and ALL of the power bolt-ons the class allows.

This was pretty eye opening, I guess I spent a lot more on consumables than I though... This was over a 13 month period also BTW. However, NO REGRETS! This summer was a great summer of racing!!!!


So have my latest video just for fun!

Where was this at?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Stickier tires will stress your brakes more. My understanding is that Qualcomm sees really high speeds compared to most Autocross courses...

I will most likly do rims, tires, suspension and brakes at once.

I see you are in OC. I go there quite often to visit family. Maybe I will see if I can make a trip there when you go to an event.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Ok, CSG Mike asked me to add up all my AutoX expenditures, particularly the consumables, to see how it adds up to to a track duty car! I think this might be painful but here we go!

Mods (towards STX prep):
KW V3 .................................................. ... $1,900
17x9 RPF1s in orange (for dry tires)..............$1,340
17x9 Rota Grid (for wet tires).......................$850
Strano Parts FSB.........................................$189
Whiteline Camber Top Mounts.......................$197
Works axle back.........................................$400
ARP extended Studs....................................$129
Various parts installations............................$600
Alignment (x2)...........................................$20 0


Total............................................. ............$5,715

Consumables:
Entrance Fees X40 events (estimated)..........$1,600
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
245/40/17 Hankook RS3s (Dry)...................$675
255/40/17 Dunlop ZIIs (Dry).......................$800
245/40/17 Falken 456s (Wet)......................$550
Broken rear axle (drivers side)(with labor).....$700
Passenger side fender liner X2......................$109
Various body clips from hitting cones.............$50
Various tire installation................................$400

Total............................................. ...........$5,509


So keep in mind that my car is modded for STX, and not very well at that. I only have about 50% of the prep possible. But a track car would certainly have different mods (notice I have no cooling or brake mods). I'm lacking a few more suspension bits and ALL of the power bolt-ons the class allows.

This was pretty eye opening, I guess I spent a lot more on consumables than I though... This was over a 13 month period also BTW. However, NO REGRETS! This summer was a great summer of racing!!!!


So have my latest video just for fun!

Here's our list. I'll use the prices from CSG's website, as using our actual costs doesn't accurately represent what it would cost a consumer to replicate our BRZ.

Mods:
Tein SRC - 3,733.50
17x8 RPF1 - 972
17x9 WedsSport TC105N - 1812.2
Camber bolts (donated to us by West End Alignment) - 10
CSG Heavy Duty Aluminum Lug Nuts - 190
AP Racing "Sprint" BBK - 2100

Total: 8817.7

Consumables:
6x 2L Motul 300V 5W30 Engine Oil - 194.1
2x Project Mu G-four Brake Fluid - 106.88
1x Carbotech XP10 front brakes (stock caliper) - 195
1x Carbotech XP8 rear brakes - 150
1x Carbotech XP12 CP8350 (BBK) - 217
1x Project MU 999 CP8350 - 348.33
1x Project Mu 999 rear brakes - 300
4x 215/45/17 Z1 Star Spec - 616
2x 225/40/17 RS3 (used) - 120
4x 225/40/17 RS3 (used) - 450
4x 225/40/17 BFG Rivals - 608

Total: 3305.31

Maintenance/labor:
~30x Event entries traded for instruction - 0 (technically negative expenses aka income; we typically only run a few laps at a given event)
Alignments - $240
Everything else DIY - 0

Total: 240

Total: 12363.01

Equity/stuff that's left (and prices I think they'll sell "same day"):
Tein SRC - 3200
17x8 RPF1 - 800
17x9 TC105N - 1500
AP Racing BBK - 1800
XP10 front pads (40%) - 40
XP8 rear pads (70%) - 80
XP12 CP8350 pads (50%) - 100
999 CP8350 pads (95%) - 250
999 rear pads (95%+) - 250
225 BFG Rivals (50%) - 200

Total: 8220


Please keep in mind that our ACTUAL costs are substantially lower; we do a lot of testing and R&D to subsidize our expenses. These costs are only to give an idea of what it costs to replicate our car and everything we've used.
@BlaineWasHere: I'm surprised you've gone through more tire than we have! We also have our stock tires which are literally at 95% of their tread depth.

Video of our latest event (our consumables [rims/tires/brakepads] are on the car)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWz5ymLKrI"]Scion FRS vs Porsche GT3 86Fest II - YouTube[/ame]

[ayau]

How much does it cost to replicate a siezed engine?