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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous |
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09-02-2016, 08:53 AM | #43 | |
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It isn't even a debate, you agree with me. Track times do not entirely show engine power since you're including vehicle handling and driver in that. To make engine power (the question at hand) there is no real way to make big power without FI (currently). |
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The Following User Says Thank You to Summerwolf For This Useful Post: | Tcoat (09-02-2016) |
09-02-2016, 11:09 AM | #44 | |
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I've run a 1:27.21 at WSIR in a BRZ, years ago. And that was in a full interior, full trim, street car. http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs |
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09-02-2016, 11:11 AM | #45 | |
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The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | Summerwolf (09-02-2016) |
09-02-2016, 11:23 AM | #46 | |
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NO...
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I said that the evidence that is out there does not support that you are any more likely to bend a rod because of FI... Logic dictates that you would be more likely to damage your engine the more power you're generating though. Let me spell it out for you logically so there is no further miscommunication. premise A) you have some FI engines that have bent rods at various power levels. premise B) you also have completely stock engines that have bent rods premise C) you also have high power FI engines that have lasted tens of thousands of miles without incident Conclusion (You) FI will increase the likelihood of bending rods... I'm sorry that's an invalid conclusion based on the premises (which in this case are the evidences). If those premises are true, AND THEY ARE, then the only conclusion that fits the premises is that there is a quality control issue on the rods and some engines are susceptible and some aren't regardless of whether they are BONE STOCK or making 350WHP on E85. A further conclusion that one could draw (although this one requires inductive reasoning) is that if you are unlucky enough to have bad rods, they may bend even if you don't go FI and there's no point in worrying about it if you WANT FI... Now if you want to make the conclusion instead: Conclusion: If you have lower quality controlled rods, FI will be more likely to cause failure. Then you have a somewhat more valid conclusion, but again, that should have negligible effect on whether you choose to go FI or not because you may bend a rod anyways just N/A... I personally have seen three engines come into our Toyota dealership that were ALL N/A that bent rod number 3. Jaden Last edited by Jaden; 09-02-2016 at 11:34 AM. |
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09-02-2016, 12:04 PM | #47 | |
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Here is the evidence in Suzuka (starts at 0:23): [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNM4v3Fb8kc"]€BRZ€‘SUZUKA BEST LAP ˆƒ‡ƒ‚˜‰ - YouTube[/ame] Where is yours? I could find only a video you posted with time 1:38 [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yik-oAVm3U"]BRZ Willow Springs International Raceway 1:38 - YouTube[/ame] and another saying 1:30, but with a Greddy T518Z Turbo Tuner Kit. Maybe you misunderstood? We were talking about NA cars. Last edited by nikitopo; 09-02-2016 at 12:14 PM. |
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09-02-2016, 12:12 PM | #48 | |
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Not everything is posted online. |
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09-02-2016, 01:25 PM | #49 | |
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Jaden - I said you increase the likelihood. If you're putting more power through a weak point you will increase the likelihood of failure. FI does that. Rods are generally regarded as a weak point on the FA20. To have a bent rod while NA is not unheard of, even at stock levels. It is not just in this vehicle, and QC issues seem to be on par for other Subaru products.. @CSG Mike Does putting forced induction on this vehicle increase the chance of bending rods or having other bottom end issues MORE than leaving the vehicle NA? Assuming proper tuning and oil level and maintenance. |
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09-02-2016, 03:09 PM | #50 | |
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Did you know a F20C from the factory, has a retail of about $14k? Why? Because the engine is designed to take the radical stresses of being spun to 9000 rpm. |
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09-02-2016, 03:13 PM | #51 | |
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So you're saying that a stock or normally modified NA engine (headers/tune/intake etc) is as likely to have rod issues as a bolt on supercharger or turbocharger??? |
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09-02-2016, 03:17 PM | #52 | |
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The CSG BRZ has over 54k miles at 400whp, and it's not driven easy. How could that possibly be?!? |
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09-02-2016, 03:24 PM | #53 |
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I really feel like you're skirting a serious question. Up until this thread I have read about multiple rod failures (most of them FI) and then @Jaden says that adding forced induction does not increase the failure rate, it is just unlucky people that would have had a rod fail eventually anyways. Are the rods more likely to fail with forced induction than not? Keeping in mind perfect tune and not a full blown NA build, but adding forced induction to a stock bottom end. It is vehicle specific since everyone runs different setups, but as far as I have been able to tell the rod is a common "weak point" when going FI with an FA20. The only reason I even tagged you is because I respect your postings and saw you active in this thread. I have seen plenty examples of cars going long miles and being beaten on with stock bottom ends, and then people who have multiple engine failures at lower power levels. Obviously tuning plays a huge part across the board, but even Subaru changed the rod design for turbo versions.... |
09-02-2016, 04:15 PM | #54 | |
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you're still not understanding for some reason...
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There are people at HIGH HP levels that aren't bending rods AND there are people with low HP levels that ARE bending rods. Those two truths preclude your conclusion that FI inherently leads to rod failure as being the case. Jaden |
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09-02-2016, 04:20 PM | #55 | |
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You definitely don't understand
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09-02-2016, 05:59 PM | #56 |
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Again, it is, 100%, dependent on the tune. FI or not, the tune is what determines the level of stress on the rods. The FI gives the car potential to create more stress than a NA car can, but it does not mean you HAVE to have more stress.
You're asking a *very* precise question with an extremely narrow scope, and you are getting an equally precise answer, with an equally narrow scope. That "turbo version" runs 24 psi spikes from the factory. How many FRS/BRZs here run 24 psi of boost? or even 15? |
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