SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[justinco]

Originally Posted by vroom4

Fourth place at nationals this year...all brand new parts. Header coated with $waintech. It really is the last 3% that adds up, its crazy.

Oh yea! Duh, I just put 2 and 2 together from your comments on my youtube vids Now I'm really curious what you put together for new parts at that price point, hah.

It's great that various levels of prep can still be highly competitive in STX...I talked to David (3rd) about his car a few times 'cause his was also a pretty mild build.

[vroom4]

im not Adam, I'd be another 0.5s back per day on a good day :p

[86_Freak]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

Full Disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but I recall reading or hearing that the expansion of rubber brake lines were a thing of the past and not much of an issue with newer cars.

I would check in with people who road course a modestly prepared car regularly (similar to your street build) and see if they've had any problems with the factory brake lines. If they've reported no problems with OEM lines then go back to them and try for yourself.

Judging by your other post you will be attending National level events, I would not risk losing out on a big win or contingency money over something as silly as a brake line. Probably won't be protested but for someone who wants to move up a spot to win money or a trophy and a hard ass on rules they might throw down the paper. For locals it won't matter and no one would ever know.

Originally Posted by DocWalt

FWIW I installed SS brake lines separate from other mods. They made absolutely no noticeable difference. Waste of money, IMO. The SS line are essentially just rubber lines with a stainless sheath that will protect from abrasion and resist some tiny amount of expansion. A big negative, they'll also hide rubber failure by not letting a rubber line balloon noticeably when there's a pinhole in the liner, so you can't feel or see the failure until the brake line bursts.

Interesting points. I did a little bit of research and it looks like the main advantage of SS brake lines is that they use a Teflon inner hose instead of a plain rubber inner hose (like the majority of OEM rubber brake lines), which actually has more to do with the SS brake lines being less prone to expansion to rubber brake lines than the steel braiding itself.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...rake-lines-q-a

http://www.cquence.net/blog/how-stai...g-performance/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braide...el_brake_lines

Anyway, I agree with Jawnathin, I will be removing the SS lines from my FR-S because I will be competing at local and National events. It will be nice to have the chance to get contingency. In KM, the only contingency I got when I got 2nd out of 35 karts at Nationals was $100 from Honda.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

FWIW I installed SS brake lines separate from other mods. They made absolutely no noticeable difference. Waste of money, IMO. The SS line are essentially just rubber lines with a stainless sheath that will protect from abrasion and resist some tiny amount of expansion. A big negative, they'll also hide rubber failure by not letting a rubber line balloon noticeably when there's a pinhole in the liner, so you can't feel or see the failure until the brake line bursts.

I did the same on my 05 Saabaru - did the stainless lines and kept the old fluid and crappy advance auto pads (I weren't too smart back then) and those lines didn't make a bit of difference, besides being a huge PITA to install, and stripping one of the nuts.

On my 08 STI, I did the opposite - upgraded brake pads (HP+), regularly refreshed the fluid (RBF600) and left the stock lines. It was a world of difference. I didn't even add stainless lines, but I doubt it would have done much.

On the FRS, keeping it in CS keeps it simple...can't touch the lines!

Originally Posted by justinco

Yea, I agree with you. My build is missing lightweight seats, aftermarket diff, and lightweight brakes, everything else is covered.

$10k seems to be about the norm' for a highly competitive build, this is my second STX build and my last one was about $10k too (little more actually because the e36 had lots of old wear items to replace).

Sorry for hijack, back to regularly scheduled CS discussion

Yup, sounds about right. I had the idea that I might make the jump to STX next year, until the I started adding up the costs to be competitive. Then I realized that full prep for CS isn't that expensive, the car is very competitive for it's class (both within CS and on PAX for local events...err it was last year anyway), and I still truly enjoy driving it in CS trim, and still have plenty to learn to max out the full potential. So, staying in CS for now!

[justinco]

Originally Posted by vroom4

im not Adam, I'd be another 0.5s back per day on a good day :p

Hah, damn I am confused lol

Originally Posted by TMF

...

Yup, sounds about right. I had the idea that I might make the jump to STX next year, until the I started adding up the costs to be competitive. Then I realized that full prep for CS isn't that expensive, the car is very competitive for it's class (both within CS and on PAX for local events...err it was last year anyway), and I still truly enjoy driving it in CS trim, and still have plenty to learn to max out the full potential. So, staying in CS for now!

Both classes are a lot of fun, and yea STX costs ain't cheap even if you go budget. I had run Miata's and RX 8's in CS the past few years until my STX BMW most recently. Couldn't let go of the STX fun/speed factor

[DaWorstPlaya]

Just got a 16 FR-S. Drove one during the 2012 Scion FR-S First drive when they 1st showed up in the country. I've been wanting one ever since they 1st came out. Looking forward to join the CS fray.

Lots of great info on this thread.

[Jawnathin]

Subforum and thread is dead, so maybe a boring question to get some activity going...

Any feedback on alignment specs? Searching the thread but didn't see much discussion on it. I am thinking to max camber front and rear, then add a little bit of toe in on the rear? Hopefully it won't make the car pushy.

[TrqlessWonder]

Was probably answered...but it was like a bazillion pages ago. So I'll slightly entertain:

Max camber front? Yep. Be sure to put the inserts in the holes if you bought full Konis

Max camber rear? No real such thing. It's not adjustable. You can play with the rear subframe to get it even side-to-side though

Toe? I run 1/16 out at the front and 1/16 in at the rear. Mostly helpful on-throttle rotation, and doesn't plow too bad on corner entry. Next year will be closer to 1/8 out up front.

**disclaimer: Not on the strano FSB, nor the TRD springs (yet). So YMMV.

[Jawnathin]

Thanks. Most of the discussion around alignment was about the full replacement Konis giving more camber. A few would post their settings, but no great discussions on recommendations and why. I admit I may have missed it though, it is a large and old thread.

Anyway, thanks for entertaining. I have the original Koni inserts that go into the OEM strut, so no problems there. Good to know about the rear subframe, I'll let my alignment guy know.

Last year I drove a BRZ w/ Strano Bar. It drove pretty well but a little pushy on corner exit if I got on the throttle too soon, I would love to make it a little more neutral. I never got it aligned though.

This year I'll be driving an FRS with full springs and TRD rear bar. I haven't autocrossed it yet so I don't have a baseline on what to adjust.

Reading through your comment, I am thinking a bit of toe out up front will help make the car not so pushy on corner exit and corner entry.

[86_Freak]

I'm curious on the difference between Strano front with the stock rear versus TRD front and rear sway bars. I have always heard that the FR-S really only needs the front sway bar and to just leave the rear sway bar as stock.

I recently picked up a used Strano front sway bar, so that's the route I'm going this year. If anyone wants to loan me the TRD front and rear, I'd be willing to test them back to back.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

Thanks. Most of the discussion around alignment was about the full replacement Konis giving more camber. A few would post their settings, but no great discussions on recommendations and why. I admit I may have missed it though, it is a large and old thread.

Anyway, thanks for entertaining. I have the original Koni inserts that go into the OEM strut, so no problems there. Good to know about the rear subframe, I'll let my alignment guy know.

Last year I drove a BRZ w/ Strano Bar. It drove pretty well but a little pushy on corner exit if I got on the throttle too soon, I would love to make it a little more neutral. I never got it aligned though.

This year I'll be driving an FRS with full springs and TRD rear bar. I haven't autocrossed it yet so I don't have a baseline on what to adjust.

Reading through your comment, I am thinking a bit of toe out up front will help make the car not so pushy on corner exit and corner entry.

Last year I was on the TRD springs, bars (F and R), and Koni full replacements. -2.2 degrees camber up front and I think -1.6 degrees camber in the rear. 0 toe all the way around. I ran the Koni's 1/2 turn from full stiff up front and 1/2 from full soft in the rear.

...And I got oversteer on corner exit on throttle. It was controllable if I eased into the throttle, but it definitely didn't push imho.

This year, I'll have to run the inserts in the front Konis and I'll probably lose about a degree of negative camber. I obviously haven't had a chance to try it that way yet, but my guess is I will still get some oversteer on corner exit.

From the factory, BRZ's understeer (typical Subaru) whereas the FRS has a bit more rotation. The TRD springs are "apparently" the same spring ratio when compared front to back, so the handling characteristics should be similar with the TRD's vs stock on the FRS.

I've always run 0 toe on my cars, but if I still have excessive oversteer on corner exit, I may try a hair of toe-in in the rear.

[Lord09]

Apologies if this thread isn't the appropriate location, but I'm looking for a set of C Street wheels/tires.

If you have a set for sale in good shape, please send me a message.

[Jawnathin]

New Fastrack is out with mention of the Koni issue...

#18376 Koni struts for twins
It has come to the SAC’s attention that there is a difference between the Koni strut housing and the OE strut housing
for the Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS.
Specifically, the OE strut housing ear’s upper mounting holes are of differing diameters forward and aft, while the Koni
strut housing ear’s upper mounting holes are both the same (larger) diameter.
There is no allowance for this. To be compliant with Street allowances, the Koni strut housing must be modified to
match the OE strut housing hole diameter and location. One method by which this can be achieved is by using a
stepped washer of the appropriate size to match the OE diameter and center the hole.
Koni N/A is aware of the issue and members are encouraged to contact them if necessary.

And three more denials of the BRZ getting TRD Parts

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1453302263

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

New Fastrack is out with mention of the Koni issue...



And three more denials of the BRZ getting TRD Parts

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1453302263

Pretty much what everyone was already expecting.