More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Victorscp]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

How much he does the 2019 Mazda Miata make?

181 hp

[davesrave]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

How much he does the 2019 Mazda Miata make?

Compared to the previous gen? Or, when it debuted till now?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by davesrave

They were interested enough when they were designing it in the 2008s or so to give it 200 HP. The car world has evolved, and the trend is increased horsepower. Surely, they can't ignore that, nor their customers desires.

It was not built to be a contender in the HP wars in 2008 and it won't be in 202?. People that wanted a 2 door WRX/STi will continue to be disappointed and Subaru/Toyota don't care if they are. They are not looking for huge sales and will not change the whole nature of the car to please the "muh horses brah" crowd.

[PetrolioBenzina]

This thread is still delivering.

[new2subaru]

My guess is you'll see something similar to the refresh 2017, if they continue to make it at all.


ETA It kind of points that way if you look at the new "TRD" model.

[davesrave]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It was not built to be a contender in the HP wars in 2008 and it won't be in 202?. People that wanted a 2 door WRX/STi will continue to be disappointed and Subaru/Toyota don't care if they are. They are not looking for huge sales and will not change the whole nature of the car to please the "muh horses brah" crowd.

Almost completely agree. Just don't understand why you quoted me in your reply. Where are we diverging on this?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by davesrave

Almost completely agree. Just don't understand why you quoted me in your reply. Where are we diverging on this?

Nope. I was quoting in the spirit of conversation. Just elaborating on your HP comment.

[evoto86]

The one thing I ask Toyota to do is to give us a modern 4AGE with 230HP but that's an unrealistic pipe dream, im not a fan of the boxer engine but I still love my 86 regardless.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by evoto86

The one thing I ask Toyota to do is to give us a modern 4AGE with 230HP but that's an unrealistic pipe dream, im not a fan of the boxer engine but I still love my 86 regardless.

I would prefer a new and improved 3SGE BEAMS.

My car has about 2 years left before I sell it, currently there isn't alot I would swap it for.

Well, not for the budget price the sell the 86 for anyway.

Hopefully someone, Toyota, maybe Nissan puts out a small, light, RWD manual NA coupe.

Hopefully it doesn't look like that awful concept car.

Note to Toyota-dump Subaru.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I would prefer a new and improved 3SGE BEAMS.

My car has about 2 years left before I sell it, currently there isn't alot I would swap it for.

Well, not for the budget price the sell the 86 for anyway.

Hopefully someone, Toyota, maybe Nissan puts out a small, light, RWD manual NA coupe.

Hopefully it doesn't look like that awful concept car.

Note to Toyota-dump Subaru.

They already did and you're driving it

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

With you but 10% lower on the HP and torque. Oh and it will gain about 50KGs.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

One word - Emissions.
Oh and...
Fuel economy
Three, three words.

The 2021 mileage and emissions standards set by most of the world are incredibly aggressive (you younger guys don't even want to know what they are for 2025 forward). The higher revving an engine is the worse the emissions and mileage are. This is why smaller turboed engines have popped up in even basic cars. They are actually more efficient when driven in a "normal" manner as most of the public drive.
The dip is there because they had to to meet current standards not because the engineers were too dumb to fix it. It is also why Europe didn't get the upgrades on the 2017 ATs. If they had to make these compromises at the 2013 controls level how on earth do people think they can up the displacement and revs under the 2021 standard?
I know that people here do not give a single damn about such things but the manufacturers have to or they can't sell their cars. The FA 24 that everybody is so sure is coming to the platform is actually a really good example of this. The Ascent that it was designed for is a huge vehicle and for all intents and purposes it is a truck engine. If built 20 years ago they would have just thrown a six at it and called it a day but now they had to come up with a different option. The problem with that engine in the 86/BRZ is that they have made it very clear over the years that they will remain NA. I just don't see the FA24 meeting all the requirements in an NA form. If they do it will be so down tuned that the advantages would be lost. Subaru also like to hold onto engines for a long, long time so dumping the FA20 after just 6 years would not be their norm.
What is physically possible vs what they will be permitted to do are very different things so asking for the equivalent of a 20 year old car is just not going to happen no matter how much people would like it. The internal combustion engine is pretty much doomed within the next 30 years so be happy with what you can get now.

So, we guess that will gain some HP and torque and it'll be heavier 50kgs. It should be ready for the coming 2021 emission standards and Subaru wouldn't like to dump the FA20 engine after just 6 years. The only think I can imagine solving this "equation" is to keep the same engine and change the transmission to include a small electric motor. Batteries could go in the trunk area and they would provide also a bit better weight distribution. This would align pretty well with the current Subaru e-boxer concept, but for the new BRZ it would be just a RWD option.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

They already did and you're driving it

Not a Toybaru, a straight up Toyota.

I firmly believe that if the 86 was fully toyota it would have gone down in history like the MX5.

Lets see what's available in 2 years time?

Disclaimer: Whilst I am harsh with my critique I have enjoyed my experience with my 86.

I also acknowledge the reasoning of why Toyota and Subaru penny pinches thought it would be a good idea the collaborate to build a cheap sports car, it's just that I think it's a cop out.

At least the Zupra doesn't have a boxer.

[Docdoc]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

So, we guess that will gain some HP and torque and it'll be heavier 50kgs. It should be ready for the coming 2021 emission standards and Subaru wouldn't like to dump the FA20 engine after just 6 years. The only think I can imagine solving this "equation" is to keep the same engine and change the transmission to include a small electric motor. Batteries could go in the trunk area and they would provide also a bit better weight distribution. This would align pretty well with the current Subaru e-boxer concept, but for the new BRZ it would be just a RWD option.

I personally like your out side of the box thinking on increasing low end torque and add some HP. However, a system like that has some huge trade off's. One being it turns it into a bit of a hybrid in the sense that the same motor will need to recoup energy to recharge the batteries during braking or deceleration. Also the motor, motor controller, charging circuits, and mostly batteries all add weight/complexity to what is suppose to be a light/simple vehicle. They will unlikely go with this options as it will significantly raise the price as well. I'm afraid "for now" performance based hybrids are still in high end and super car territory.

Docdoc

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I firmly believe that if the 86 was fully toyota it would have gone down in history like the MX-5

If the 86 was fully Toyota-developed it would never have made it to production. Toyota has no lightweight RWD chassis, no low packaging engine that fits, they have no car with suspension geometry that carries over.

Toyota cannot engineer and build this car from scratch for under 30k. The bulk of the miata's engineering was done for the NA, the ND engine is shared more than the old Miata motor to spread development cost and the chassis has been incrementally evolved over 3 decades, and STILL the Miata is more expensive.

Without Subaru they would have canned the project because it's not financially viable without an existing platform and hardware to adapt.