Someone tested the Performance Package... small but SOME info at least

[~el~jefe~]

Dorian Mansella ‏@DorianMansella [ame="https://twitter.com/DorianMansella/status/802006992441188356"]Nov 24[/ame] Queens, NY @themaxprince you recently reviewed the 2017 BRZ with the new performance package. Can you compare the ride qualities of perf.pack vs orig?

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Max Prince ‏@themaxprince

@DorianMansella Hey! Thanks for reading. No street drive, just Fuji. But ride feels similar to early FRS & brakes are lovely. Recommended.

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This article is the only article i have found that has a person who reviewed the 2017 BRZ with performance package. He seemed to have a technical brain and into mechanics, so i was inspired to ask him his opinion on ride comfort. The first is my question tweet and the 2nd is his reply. I made an account just to message him, only way I could figure out how to contact him.

at least it is something. Similar is similar.

[brzaapi]

Well I have been wondering about this as well. I have not been worried about the comfort level, but i was curious if the sachs added a little extra joy in the corners.

But at least we know he liked the brakes.

Good on ya, for at least actively trying to find an answer.

[~el~jefe~]

thanks

[track junkie]

A few comments from someone who tested the Sachs performance dampers.

"The new tune has better bump absorption, and quickly settles down after rolling over the lip of some of the curbs; the BRZ's Sachs dampers make it stiffer, but not exotic-car stiff."

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-review/page-2

I know, that doesn't help much.

[john5757]

thanks for asking him, I have been wondering about it but have not found very much information.

[jmark]

http://www.motor1.com/reviews/64734/...17-subaru-brz/

[~el~jefe~]

Hmm... more reactive and stiffer could be sucky on potholes.

[Jo0]

Good mentions about the Sachs ZFs, but I'm honestly more interested to hear about how good those Brembos are. I'm still leaning on the thought that it's just a gimmick they added to the PP to add perceived value. I mean it's not uncommon to throw on something inadequate with a brand name on it to increase sales.

I know I want the PP because of the Sachs ZFs, and the fact that it's a psuedo prepped car off the lot. ~$1.2 and you won't have to worry about suspension and brakes until you feel that you've maximized the car as it is or are ready to change out some components. Which is a pretty good value in my opinion since coils and brake kits run about $2k+ each.

JRitt's post on another thread pretty much lays out points to think about when comparing the value of the PP Brembos vs the AP racing kit.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=18

Originally Posted by JRitt

I think the OEM Brembo option will be nice for cosmetics, but certainly not a great value for actual performance. Here's a basic rundown of the OEM Brembo option vs. our Essex/AP Racing Sprint Kit.

Calipers
The four piston Brembo calipers on the STi, Evo, Focus RS, Corvette, etc. all weigh about 8.2 lbs. These appear to be roughly the same in overall dimension, so that's the weight I expect.


Our AP Racing CP8350 weighs 5.4 lbs.


The Brembo's have aluminum pistons, just like the standard calipers.


Our CP8350 has stainless steel pistons.


They won't have anti-knockback springs, allowing for a soft pedal after a series of S turns.


Our CP8350 has AKB springs.


They'll have dust boots to burn up.


We avoid the mess of dust boots.


With four pistons of the same size (rather than differential bores), pad taper is a potential issue.


Our calipers have differential bores that help prevent pad taper.


The painted finish will fade, change color, etc. if they got hot enough.


Our calipers have a durable anodized finish that holds up very well to long-term track abuse.


The pads will at most be only 16mm thick…possibly 14.7mm thick.
Our caliper uses a 20mm thick pad.


Pads for the OEM Brembo's will range from $250-$450 per set.


Pads for our CP8350 range from $125-$250

Discs


The one-piece 326x30mm disc found on the STI weighs 22.5 lbs.


Our 299x32mm disc weighs 12.2 lbs.


Their disc will have likely have at most 48 vanes.


Our disc has 60 cooling vanes.


Their disc costs $85.


Our spare iron is $173.00, but will definitely last at least twice as long.


In summary, with our Sprint Kit you're going to be carrying 15 unsprung lbs. less per side, or 30 lbs. less on the nose of your car. Twenty pounds of that mass savings will be in the rotating mass of the discs. All of the components in our kit are far more durable and more suited to track use. Pads, which are your most frequently replaced consumable, will be about half price for our kit vs. the ones for the Brembo's. Our 299mm disc will fit a greater variety of smaller, lighter wheels, while still providing fade-free performance for just about everyone. The initial cost of our system will likely be higher, but if you're tracking your car you'd make up the difference in a single season of pad changes since you'll be paying nearly double at every pad change for the Brembo's.



If you're going cram a lot of HP into your car with big boost, we also have the Endurance Kit option. To my knowledge we have never had any FT86 customer ever fade our larger Endurance Kit that features a 325x32mm, 70 vane disc (only one or two have ever even faded the smaller Sprint Kit). Our Endurance Kit also comes with a super trick integrated brake duct provision, which eliminates one more part to buy. Our larger endurance kit will still be roughly 10 lbs. lighter per side, or 20 lbs. lighter than the OEM Brembo option.

We don't offer a rear kit, but rear kits on these cars are primarily for looks anyway. Our customers have been pounding our front-only kits at the track for years now without any issues, seeing flawless performance. Front kits are where you see the big return on investment with these cars.


Unless you're just looking for bling, our Essex Designed AP Racing kits are a no-brainer vs. the factory Brembo option. Unsprung weight, heat rejection, durability, long-term running costs, etc. are all in our favor.

[goldenfri]

Keep in mind the above is from someone trying to sell you something and this information is all very biased towards the kit they sell. The BBK in the PP should be more than enough for lapping days and the essex kit will cost at least twice as much than for PP for just a front system, vs front AND rear and wider wheels and better dampers of the PP. Sorry but you just can't argue with the value proposition of the PP.

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

Keep in mind the above is from someone trying to sell you something and this information is all very biased towards the kit they sell. The BBK in the PP should be more than enough for lapping days and the essex kit will cost at least twice as much than for PP for just a front system, vs front AND rear and wider wheels and better dampers of the PP. Sorry but you just can't argue with the value proposition of the PP.

yeah, exactly. I could spend $1100 on nice rims, 4 brembos and sachs dampers, or 1100 on sachs dampers after the purchase and then $3500 or more on rims and brakes as noted above.

$1100 + warranty and testing vs. $4600 for probably better setup but its thousands more so it should be.

1100 bux one cant go wrong unless you live in a flat place, never brake a lot, and dont like the color black on wheels.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

Keep in mind the above is from someone trying to sell you something and this information is all very biased towards the kit they sell. The BBK in the PP should be more than enough for lapping days and the essex kit will cost at least twice as much than for PP for just a front system, vs front AND rear and wider wheels and better dampers of the PP. Sorry but you just can't argue with the value proposition of the PP.

The PP is an absolute steal at the price. If I was looking for a BRZ right now I would be tempted even knowing that for street use I am not really benefiting from any of it. The brakes are pretty enough too warrant the cost alone (to me). Add to thata the fact that you could use the PP as a bargaining tool (I will pay X amount if you throw in the PP) and it gets even more attractive.

[Jo0]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

Keep in mind the above is from someone trying to sell you something and this information is all very biased towards the kit they sell. The BBK in the PP should be more than enough for lapping days and the essex kit will cost at least twice as much than for PP for just a front system, vs front AND rear and wider wheels and better dampers of the PP. Sorry but you just can't argue with the value proposition of the PP.

Totally understand, and I am getting the PP regardless because of the amazing value. I also only referenced that post mainly because it brought up points to think about.

[gtengr]

That brake comparison summary is pretty good imo. There's more to it than upfront costs. Just from looking at the Brembo pad costs and thickness it's clear that it will cost more to operate in the long run. Also, the Sprint kit has good residual value so it's not a completely sunk cost. And it saves 10 lbs per rotor which is big. Rear BBK isn't necessary so the rear Brembo is just extra weight and pad/rotor expense.

RE: shocks. If you want to go stiffer than stock springs and lower, those Sachs probably aren't going to be of much use and/or will have a shortened lifespan. Aftermarket suspension will have residual value.

Unless you have a class restriction you'll want wider wheels than 7.5".

Don't get me wrong, the PP looks good, and the value of it does make sense for some. For the track, the parts are marginal improvements. The aftermarket isn't necessarily more expensive depending on your plans.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The PP is an absolute steal at the price. If I was looking for a BRZ right now I would be tempted even knowing that for street use I am not really benefiting from any of it. The brakes are pretty enough too warrant the cost alone (to me). Add to thata the fact that you could use the PP as a bargaining tool (I will pay X amount if you throw in the PP) and it gets even more attractive.

This is a great way to put it.

TBH, one reason I also decided to add the PP is because I want to try track days. I wasn't entirely sure I'd ever do a track day, but I figured I might as well be more prepped for that than not.

Also, I want to take this car on the curvy backroads around here and while I probably won't push it super hard, esp. at the beginning, having the PP means I will be more confident in the car's abilities later.

It's certainly a good thing to get just for future-proofing, _if_ you think you'll at some point likely make use of the benefits.