Where's the white man comedian doing a set on black people?

[AznBRZer]

Hmmm...you pick a specific quote as an example of me moving goal posts, I demonstrate a pattern that deal with that quote you highlighted, and then say that I'm butchering your posts.

Denial must be a river in Egypt.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Talking race relations on a forum based around primarily newly purchased cars with a $25k entry point. I luvs it. I hear lots of complaints, and no solutions. I would like to hear @AznBRZer 's solutions to race relations and where his authority on the subject came from.

Don't recall if he's the same 'tard who always goes full 'tard in any gun thread...but I'm just going to assume he is based on the wall(s) of text.

ZOMG A GUN THREAD, LET ME TALK ABOUT GUN GRABBING AND POLITICS. Bro, the thread's about guns, not the politics. I see the same shit going on here...mod please lock.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

When white folks have been marginalized and oppressed in the same way they oppressed others while suffering from similiar socio-economic outcomes as Native Americans and black folks, I'd say that being pro-white probably won't be considered an issue. This source of pride comes from a place where societal norms that place non-whites on lower tier of the social hierarchy and the refusal to be treated as less than equally.

You wanna know why it's not the same thing? Because of shit like this:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/13/doll.study/

So instead of moving forward, we need to go backward first? Lets punish later (mostly innocent) generations for the sins of the forefathers. In some ways, whites actually are treated as less than equal because we get excluded from all sorts of black-only or race-specific conventions and programs. I understand the point that these conventions are in response to historical pro-white societal norms, but it still a valid point regardless. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Continuing to push racial separation, racial exclusivity, or forced integration is what I'm disagreeing with. Maybe I'm looking at it from a too optimistic point of view. But, pro-white conventions are slowly being broken down as time passes and I'm 100% OK with it, I just don't think it's fair to think we will only be equal when I have whip marks on my back, because I've been against racism for my entire life.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Talking about anti-white sentiment is like saying there's a war on christmas while standing next to a 40ft tall christmas tree with a table menorah next to it.

You're the one that made the ridiculous statements. I'm just following you down the rabbit hole because you're steering the discussion in that direction.

So now we go full circle again and your solution is to not use labels.

Are you saying Christianity in the US overshadows other religions and that Christianity is what sets many social standards? If so, it's a good analog to which I completely agree. Personally I'm Agnostic bordering Atheist, which may be relevant to the same analog considering my perspective, but I'll leave religion for another discussion.

I'm still lost on the "ridiculous" part...

And yes I do believe removing labels will help, whether you agree or not. It's not the singular solution, but a step.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Well, considering all the studies on hiring practices when it comes to race, the person of color generally needs to be even MORE qualified than the white person to even get a call back. When it's easier for a formerly incarcerated white guy to get a call back than a black guy with no record and identical qualifications, we have a problem.

Places I've worked turned away white offenders with records, and even firing them after months of employment when a background check showed they lied about it. Many of my previous employers (unfortunately not all) could give zero fucks about race, the majority just want someone who was competent, intelligent, trustworthy and reliable. I've watched people of all races rise quickly from entry level positions based on these characteristics.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

That's what a human resources department, company policies, and employee handbooks are for. Besides, who cares what the fired employee thinks when employers tend to have disproportionate bargaining power in the employer/employee relationship to begin with, while having most states being At-Will employment? But from all information we have on how black folks face increased scrutiny compared to other races, it's not a far stretch to say that they're allowed to fuck up less.

Or allowed to fuck up more because nobody wants it to turn into a racial thing by firing him for a small offense. I've seen white employees fired for saying something offensive, making small mistakes, and black employees get away with murder before being written up or terminated. It's a double standard, but not always in the direction you're implying.

The whole at-will thing is a cop out on the employers part. My wife is a school teacher and due to the corrupt school board that was elected (by questionable means) for her district, they no longer recognize tenure and the teacher's union now has zero power. It's essentially becoming an at-will workplace and policies are being turned upside down. She could be fired for no reason and would have a difficult or impossible time defending herself.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Data and studies simply don't back your opinions and all opinions aren't equal. It's not like we're discussing why our favorite flavor of ice cream is the best.

So what's wrong with thinking outside the box? Studies typically only expose generalities relevant to the point that's being proven/disproven. I was taught to think differently and analyze situations from different angles, and it's worked to my benefit most of the time.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

It's strawberry btw.

Mine is Neapolitan. JK. Cookies n Cream, for real lol

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

LOLZ@"anti-white rhetoric" and "my own hatred for white people." One would think that I was talking about putting them in concentration camps or how they should be enslaved and how they're naturally inferior to the Negroid and Mongolian races from the way you talk.

I'm trying to drop some knowledge and get you to think more critically about your thoughts on racism, but I guess that means I just hate whitey.

No I sincerely appreciate it. But it's hard to not get defensive when one's "opinions" and personal experiences are constantly berated.

And anti-white sentiment is exactly how it comes across when you refer to whites so generally and in such a negative light that we're all painted as bigots only seeking to further our own selfish goals by subjugating everyone and everything within our reach.

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Don't recall if he's the same 'tard who always goes full 'tard in any gun thread...but I'm just going to assume he is based on the wall(s) of text.

ZOMG A GUN THREAD, LET ME TALK ABOUT GUN GRABBING AND POLITICS. Bro, the thread's about guns, not the politics. I see the same shit going on here...mod please lock.

^This post doesn't help. Nor does my post addressing your post.

A real man can admit when he's wrong though. Care to take that challenge?

[AznBRZer]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

So instead of moving forward, we need to go backward first? Lets punish later (mostly innocent) generations for the sins of the forefathers. In some ways, whites actually are treated as less than equal because we get excluded from all sorts of black-only or race-specific conventions and programs. I understand the point that these conventions are in response to historical pro-white societal norms, but it still a valid point regardless. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Continuing to push racial separation, racial exclusivity, or forced integration is what I'm disagreeing with. Maybe I'm looking at it from a too optimistic point of view. But, pro-white conventions are slowly being broken down as time passes and I'm 100% OK with it, I just don't think it's fair to think we will only be equal when I have whip marks on my back, because I've been against racism for my entire life.

How are whites being punished? It's not like the IRS went through 200 years of financial records to redistribute wealth to the descendents of slaves. It's not like there's an abundance of funds for scholarships targeted at black and Latino kids. It's not like employers are hiring any person of color off the street to fill a quota and therefore "taking" a spot from a "more qualified" white person. This isn't turning into some bizarro reverse-apartheid state.

The wealth gap was created largely in part by prohibiting black people from having any kind of economic mobility. They received lower wages for menial labor and were barred from even receiving an education for generations while their white economic counterparts at least had a chance. I mean what good is the GI Bill if you couldn't even use it because colleges and universities pretty much just didn't accept black students? You might ask, why am I bringing this up and why is it important? It's because generational wealth that had been accumulated because of the FHA and other New Deal programs weren't available for black folks. And even when they became available, there was Redlining. If you don't know what that is, you should read up on it.

Are you saying Christianity in the US overshadows other religions and that Christianity is what sets many social standards? If so, it's a good analog to which I completely agree. Personally I'm Agnostic bordering Atheist, which may be relevant to the same analog considering my perspective, but I'll leave religion for another discussion.

I'm still lost on the "ridiculous" part...

I'm saying that it's a false equivalency to compare racism with anti-white sentiment. You can't really compare the two because the frequency and amplitude between the two are figuratively polar opposites.

And yes I do believe removing labels will help, whether you agree or not. It's not the singular solution, but a step.

Changing societies' preconceived notions about people that belong to that group is what will help. That's the reason why things like Black History Month and Asian Pacific Islander Heritage Month exist, cynically or not.

Places I've worked turned away white offenders with records, and even firing them after months of employment when a background check showed they lied about it. Many of my previous employers (unfortunately not all) could give zero fucks about race, the majority just want someone who was competent, intelligent, trustworthy and reliable. I've watched people of all races rise quickly from entry level positions based on these characteristics.

Or allowed to fuck up more because nobody wants it to turn into a racial thing by firing him for a small offense. I've seen white employees fired for saying something offensive, making small mistakes, and black employees get away with murder before being written up or terminated. It's a double standard, but not always in the direction you're implying.

And I've seen the exact opposite, but the plural of anecdote isn't data, hence the study I referenced about call backs.

If you're interested in reading an outline of that study: http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas...acialbias.html

The whole at-will thing is a cop out on the employers part. My wife is a school teacher and due to the corrupt school board that was elected (by questionable means) for her district, they no longer recognize tenure and the teacher's union now has zero power. It's essentially becoming an at-will workplace and policies are being turned upside down. She could be fired for no reason and would have a difficult or impossible time defending herself.

This is one place I am in full agreement with you, but it's probably a discussion that might ruffle too many feathers here.

So what's wrong with thinking outside the box? Studies typically only expose generalities relevant to the point that's being proven/disproven. I was taught to think differently and analyze situations from different angles, and it's worked to my benefit most of the time.

Well, there are good studies that are vigorous and bad studies that are lazy. It really comes down to you familiarity with the subject in order to critique it.

Mine is Neapolitan. JK. Cookies n Cream, for real lol

Strawberry is still the best.

No I sincerely appreciate it. But it's hard to not get defensive when one's "opinions" and personal experiences are constantly berated.

And anti-white sentiment is exactly how it comes across when you refer to whites so generally and in such a negative light that we're all painted as bigots only seeking to further our own selfish goals by subjugating everyone and everything within our reach.

It's a touchy subject for most people and it's perfectly ok to get upset. Good on you for sticking it out.

I recommend picking up a copy of Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. It's a pretty politically neutral book that would be a good primer and an easy read.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

^This post doesn't help. Nor does my post addressing your post.

A real man can admit when he's wrong though. Care to take that challenge?

Yep @King Tut it's the tard I'm thinking of.