Effective NA Power Mods

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Read the list of mods again. There is very little there that actually impacts the engine performance.

Originally Posted by justatroll

except a crank pulley that is HEAVIER than stock

All you could see was the fluidampr? Come on guys, show some respect to the Japanese tuning scene.

Cusco, HKS, Okada Projects, TODA, JUN !

Check here an example of the Okada Projects plasma ignition coils: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...gnition-coils/

[Lantana frs]

Originally Posted by justatroll

And dont forget the headlights which sap more power from the engine than you could gain from some of the more popular mods.

And I will call BS on the >200 wheel-hp without FI or E85.

All depends on that elusive baseline.

[stevo_12v]

To all the people questioning the dyno figures. How about YOU the exact same mods to YOUR car, then come back and repost YOUR results. Don't just assume or interpolate figures from what someone else has done, or he/she said. Go out, buy the product and do the testing yourself if you want to argue a point.

Originally Posted by steve99

you should be blowing off turbo and SC cars running 7-9 psi with that increase.


http://www.sprintex.com.au/frsbrz/

Usually.
My last track day


Guy below me is E85 Sprintex.

And yeah, the baseline is a stock untuned from the factory 86. Even after a tune, a bone stock 86 will net at least +10 gain. I'm quoting a bone stock UNTUNED 86.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by justatroll

That is 112.5 hp/liter which is pretty much in the top 10 hp/liter for ANY production car.
And it is almost the same as a Porsche 911 GTS which costs ~$110,000 (113 hp/liter)

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Honda S2000 (1st gen) 119 hp/litre @ 8,300 rpm
Ferrari 458 Speciale 132 hp/litre @ 9000 rpm
Caparo T1 159.3 hp/litre @ 10,500 rpm
How much money do you want to spend?

Note the rpm at which max power is produced.
Sure, an engine could have been built but at what cost?

(@justatroll. I was continuing your comment, not refuting it.)

[Dr. BRZ]

I am all tomei el headers, overpipe, front pipe and 60s. i have k&n air filter, zeta performance silicone inlet tube, lightweight pullies, throttle body spacer, greddy snorkel, oft stage 2 e85 and i pull on twins evenly with the sbd turbo kit tuned on a 20 roll.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by justatroll

wouldnt they have done that??

Not necessarily. Two things come to mind: budget and emissions.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

My last track day

Off topic but anyhoo.
Part of my ego protection toolbox goes like this:
I'm faster than the more powerful cars behind me because I'm a better driver and slower than the cars in front of me because they have more powerful cars so of course they are faster.
This thinking works incredibly well for me even though I secretly know I'm not that good a driver.

[slava]

Here is a stock BRZ compared with mine on 91 pump gas.



Mods are Nameless Performance EL header, Nameless Performance 3" downpipe, (oem midpipe), Greddy SP Elite axleback, and HKS drop in filter. Tuned with Ecutek. The Nameless header turned the torque dip into a torque hill. Love it. Eventually got it retuned on E85 (same mods) and here's what that looks like. Green line is previous pump gas tune.



I'm probably leaving some power on the table with the stock midpipe, but I had a 3" midpipe before and the car sounded terrible. Way too raspy. Maybe I'll do the Nameless 2.5" midpipe eventually. I've been driving on that tune for over 2yrs now and the car still feels amazing. A small turbo is tempting but the car is really fun to drive NA. Hope to do a intake manifold upgrade and maybe cams in the future. If I can squeeze an extra 15-20hp through most of the power curve that would be great.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by justatroll

And dont forget the headlights which sap more power from the engine than you could gain from some of the more popular mods.

And I will call BS on the >200 wheel-hp without FI or E85.



In stock form, our car generates 200 hp at the crank and ~175 hp at the wheels.
That is a 12.5% drivetrain loss.

If you wanted to get 200 hp at the wheels, you would need 225 hp at the crank.
That is 112.5 hp/liter which is pretty much in the top 10 hp/liter for ANY production car.
And it is almost the same as a Porsche 911 GTS which costs ~$110,000 (113 hp/liter)

If there was ANY way that the toyota engineers could get world class performance from mere "bolt-ons" and no E85 required, wouldnt they have done that??

Challenge accepted. Ace header + tune can make 200whp on gasoline.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Off topic but anyhoo.
Part of my ego protection toolbox goes like this:
I'm faster than the more powerful cars behind me because I'm a better driver and slower than the cars in front of me because they have more powerful cars so of course they are faster.
This thinking works incredibly well for me even though I secretly know I'm not that good a driver.

That made me giggle.

[Lantana frs]

How does the car feel below 3000 rpm?

I'm probably leaving some power on the table with the stock midpipe, but I had a 3" midpipe before and the car sounded terrible. Way too raspy. Maybe I'll do the Nameless 2.5" midpipe eventually. I've been driving on that tune for over 2yrs now and the car still feels amazing. A small turbo is tempting but the car is really fun to drive NA. Hope to do a intake manifold upgrade and maybe cams in the future. If I can squeeze an extra 15-20hp through most of the power curve that would be great.[/QUOTE]

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Challenge accepted. Ace header + tune can make 200whp on gasoline.

Correct top quality header and exhaust and tune can make 200hp on quality gasoline (petrol) on the average dyno dynamics setup/calibration in usa, where a stock car probably makes 165-175 hp so your looking at about 35hp gain or about 20%, this guys is talking 50% gain here as supposedly a stock car only does 130hp and he makes 200.


you guys better hire his tuner and get his intake manifold :-)


and were talking our not so good Australian petrol which is about your 91 fuel


His extra mod seems to be a intake manifold so what were debating is if the intake manifold and spacers is worth the extra 30%

[steve99]

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

To all the people questioning the dyno figures. How about YOU the exact same mods to YOUR car, then come back and repost YOUR results. Don't just assume or interpolate figures from what someone else has done, or he/she said. Go out, buy the product and do the testing yourself if you want to argue a point.



Usually.
My last track day


Guy below me is E85 Sprintex.

And yeah, the baseline is a stock untuned from the factory 86. Even after a tune, a bone stock 86 will net at least +10 gain. I'm quoting a bone stock UNTUNED 86.

Mate not trying to get into an argument.


And rearly track times are more dependant on driver, seen guys in stock cars blow off turbo guys.


What were questioning here is that your claiming about 30% more gain over stock that anyone else on the planet.


now were not saying this is impossible but it does seem extremely good.


The normal mods of good quality catless header exhaust intake and tune on petrol usually yield 10-15% maybe on Australian petrol over stock. USA guys with better petrol get maybe 20% over stock on their fuel with similar mods. ie a stock car dynos at about 165-175 will maybe get to 190-200 on petrol (usa petrol)


Now I see you have an complete new intake manifold, now maybe that's worth the other 30%.


The strange thing is Full-blown motorsports and velox and other tried intake manifolds on naturally aspirated car will very little gains.


The Normal gains we would expect would be


Tune on petrol +10hp
Tune plus header +20hp
tune plus header intake catless front pipe maybe +25
Tune plus above plus E85 +35 to 40hp


Now your talking 70 odd hp on petrol that pretty substantial. The 200hp were fine with the baseline of stock car seems low hence inflating the gain.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by stevo_12v

To all the people questioning the dyno figures. How about YOU the exact same mods to YOUR car, then come back and repost YOUR results. Don't just assume or interpolate figures from what someone else has done, or he/she said. Go out, buy the product and do the testing yourself if you want to argue a point.



Usually.
My last track day


Guy below me is E85 Sprintex.

And yeah, the baseline is a stock untuned from the factory 86. Even after a tune, a bone stock 86 will net at least +10 gain. I'm quoting a bone stock UNTUNED 86.

I have faster track times (same track) with my 71 Porsche 914 than I do with my stock BRZ.
Does that mean my 71 VW Bus motor has more HP?


So what was the point?


I am just skeptical after the BRZ-dude with his NA 212 HP "Dyno sheets".
Once we called him on it and got him on another dyno, we never heard back from him.


I suspect dyno shenanigans again.