TRD Wheels on a 2018 BRZ

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

These are nice. All black everything is the way to go.

Thanks! The next ones will be chrome. Date night, ya know lol

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Thanks! The next ones will be chrome. Date night, ya know lol

Date night? Or picking up exotic dancers?

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Date night? Or picking up exotic dancers?

They kinda match my hair

So, now I have my car ready to go on summers and we get an ice storm. Perfect!

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

They kinda match my hair

So, now I have my car ready to go on summers and we get an ice storm. Perfect!

Yeah, it's pretty bad out there. I drove to pick up some food and had to make my way to the airport lol... Let's just say it was interesting.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

The TRD one is dope.

I think those are 15s.

- Andrew

[rvoll]

So I started this thread with the thought of trying to get a performance reason for upgrading my wheels and tires on my new BRZ. Since I never owned one before, I thought I'd see if owners added information would change my mind. From years of previous track experience, I knew that, in general, wider wheels and tires weren't going to improve performance for this specific car, but I was open to being convinced otherwise. So, after reviewing all of the input, I'm convinced of the following:

1. Wider tires and wheels will not increase performance of this car as a daily driver. However, specialized use in autocross might require different tires.

2. If you plan to put in a turbo, then putting wider tires on the driving wheels makes sense. From a performance point of view, there is no reason to believe that a square implementation makes sense, so staggered would probably be the best way to go.

3. The stock tires slip too much for my style of driving, and the consensus is that at a minimum, stickier tires are warranted. There is strong agreement from virtually all on this point.

4. If you are not putting on tires wider than 225's, there is no reason to move to wider rims for tire fitment. I have seen no proven or convincing arguments that increased offset does virtually anything for performance,

5. There is virtually universal agreement, including me, that wider tires with a lower offset just looks more aggressive and better. But if I am intellectually honest, I know it does virtually nothing for performance, so it's just a matter of ego.

In light of these conclusions, I will not upgrade the wheels to the TRD wheels or any other wheel. However, I will upgrade the tires to Pilot Sport 4S 225/45/17 which seems to be a consensus among many of you. The stock Primacy HP tires just have too much slip, not only in your opinion, but in the opinion and testing by Tirerack on the 86. So I will sell those Michelin Primacy HP, 215/45/17's cheap. If you know anyone near Vegas who might want those totally new tires cheap, just PM me. They will be available in about 3-4 weeks. By the way, I did just purchase the new tires to take advantage of the current Michelin rebate.

[churchx]

rvoll: wrong on (2.). Wider with forced induction - yes. But still square, not staggered is best, from performance POV.
When you turn in corner with throttle off, it doesn't matter if you have 500hp or stock 200, if car suspension is designed around square setup and you change to staggered, it will understeer on limit. There might be brake bias and electronic nannies proper functioning issues too. Also you'll lose ability to rotate tires to even out wear. Or find replacement wheel for case of damage. Or find buyers for staggered sets when selling off. Staggered tire choice is looks crowd choice, not performance POV. (those that wish to fit absolutely widest they can (in rear one can put a bit wider then in front), and those that fool themselves, that putting staggered setup as in more powerful supercar (whose suspension and brakes are designed around their stock staggered tire choice) will somewhat make twins closer to those).

(5.). While original tucked in tires/wheels most probably are due these cars selling & being certified all around the world, including in countries with silly requirements of being able to fit snow chains (when chains are needed and normal winter tire is insufficient, our cars won't be able to move anyway, due too low ground clearance), there is some change with different offset. Spaced out front wheels will change scrub radius (steering a bit heavier & tending to follow road grooves), and all wheels will reduce bearings life (due longer lever arm more load on them). Not by much though, so reasonable spacing out is safe enough.

Regarding Primacies .. "consensus among many of us" is to wear down primacies first, while familiarizing with car . Not best purchase for next set, but they are good enough tires, one gets them for free with car, and simplify learning car handling due lower grip levels / slower max cornering speeds / less costly mistakes & errors. Low grip also adds a bit more slight power oversteering fun even at stock low power.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by churchx

rvoll: wrong on (2.). Wider with forced induction - yes. But still square, not staggered is best, from performance POV.
When you turn in corner with throttle off, it doesn't matter if you have 500hp or stock 200, if car suspension is designed around square setup and you change to staggered, it will understeer on limit. There might be brake bias and electronic nannies proper functioning issues too. Also you'll lose ability to rotate tires to even out wear. Or find replacement wheel for case of damage. Or find buyers for staggered sets when selling off. Staggered tire choice is looks crowd choice, not performance POV. (those that wish to fit absolutely widest they can (in rear one can put a bit wider then in front), and those that fool themselves, that putting staggered setup as in more powerful supercar (whose suspension and brakes are designed around their stock staggered tire choice) will somewhat make twins closer to those).

(5.). While original tucked in tires/wheels most probably are due these cars selling & being certified all around the world, including in countries with silly requirements of being able to fit snow chains (when chains are needed and normal winter tire is insufficient, our cars won't be able to move anyway, due too low ground clearance), there is some change with different offset. Spaced out front wheels will change scrub radius (steering a bit heavier & tending to follow road grooves), and all wheels will reduce bearings life (due longer lever arm more load on them). Not by much though, so reasonable spacing out is safe enough.

Regarding Primacies .. "consensus among many of us" is to wear down primacies first, while familiarizing with car . Not best purchase for next set, but they are good enough tires, one gets them for free with car, and simplify learning car handling due lower grip levels / slower max cornering speeds / less costly mistakes & errors. Low grip also adds a bit more slight power oversteering fun even at stock low power.

If you are going to put in the money for a turbo, and not modify the suspension, I think it is a poor choice for performance. Understeer can be corrected by proper suspension changes, and there should be enough experience by others to help there. If you are going to make an argument for going cheap, I would not consider that a performance orientation. The argument for going square so you can rotate the tires, is also not a performance argument. As far as I know, virtually all rear drive sports cars have staggered setups. Do you really think that is a coincidence? Again, we are talking about cars with turbo's and not putting wider tires on non-turboed cars.

Regarding offset, again, I haven't seen any evidence of a performance boost with a wider track. We are not talking about looks or ego here. Typically, a wider track helps on cars that lean heavily during turns -- which this car does not. I don't care if there is a reason in other countries for this, as the car was designed this way and it seems well balanced to me.

In terms of the Primacies, I've almost always put higher performance tires on my cars at purchase. I can't seem to find anyone here who liked the Primacies better, so if I'm going to get enjoyment out of the car, it just made sense to me to change them out at the beginning. At my age, I don't know how much longer I'll spend on this earth and this seemed like a good way to spend the money I've saved over the years. I've always done overkill with brakes and tires -- it's a safety thing for me.

[nikitopo]

The new GR 86 has a staggered setup. Front are 7 1/2 wheels and rear are 8 1/2 wheels. Tires are 215 and 235 respectively. So, it is quite possible in this car without too many changes.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/...ecs/equipment/

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new GR 86 has a staggered setup. Front are 7 1/2 wheels and rear are 8 1/2 wheels. Tires are 215 and 235 respectively. So, it is quite possible in this car without too many changes.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/...ecs/equipment/

Did you notice that on the rears they used 235/45/17's instead of 245/40/17's which would be the right circumference? The only conclusion I come to is that the 235's perform better than the 245's. You can clearly put 245's on 8.5" rims. Hmmmm....

[churchx]

Originally Posted by rvoll

If you are going to put in the money for a turbo, and not modify the suspension, I think it is a poor choice for performance. Understeer can be corrected by proper suspension changes, and there should be enough experience by others to help there. If you are going to make an argument for going cheap, I would not consider that a performance orientation. The argument for going square so you can rotate the tires, is also not a performance argument. As far as I know, virtually all rear drive sports cars have staggered setups. Do you really think that is a coincidence? Again, we are talking about cars with turbo's and not putting wider tires on non-turboed cars.

Regarding offset, again, I haven't seen any evidence of a performance boost with a wider track. We are not talking about looks or ego here. Typically, a wider track helps on cars that lean heavily during turns -- which this car does not. I don't care if there is a reason in other countries for this, as the car was designed this way and it seems well balanced to me.

In terms of the Primacies, I've almost always put higher performance tires on my cars at purchase. I can't seem to find anyone here who liked the Primacies better, so if I'm going to get enjoyment out of the car, it just made sense to me to change them out at the beginning. At my age, I don't know how much longer I'll spend on this earth and this seemed like a good way to spend the money I've saved over the years. I've always done overkill with brakes and tires -- it's a safety thing for me.

Oh, you will have very safe car, that understeers like pig. Congratulations to debunking conspiracy of suspension specialists, that lied about staggered setups being wrong on twins. Your car probably will lap around all the other twins, whose suspension was tuned by someone like RCE or CSG, just because your keen specialist eyes saw through their lies.
Or not? This was posted for reason. RCE also posted, that it's possible to work around illeffects of staggered wheels/tires, but why pay more to fix mistake that shouldn't be done in first place? Brakes will need to have bias changed, suspension will need to be some custom tuned/modded, and handling will be back to that of twins of square wheel/tire choice. It really is doable. But why?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by churchx

Oh, you will have very safe car, that understeers like pig. Congratulations to debunking conspiracy of suspension specialists, that lied about staggered setups being wrong on twins. Your car probably will lap around all the other twins, whose suspension was tuned by someone like RCE or CSG, just because your keen specialist eyes saw through their lies.
Or not? This was posted for reason. RCE also posted, that it's possible to work around illeffects of staggered wheels/tires, but why pay more to fix mistake that shouldn't be done in first place? Brakes will need to have bias changed, suspension will need to be some custom tuned/modded, and handling will be back to that of twins of square wheel/tire choice. It really is doable. But why?

I see you've misread your quote. Please go back and read the Racecomp quote carefully. Here is part of the quote on staggered wheels:

"It's a good look and definitely makes your car look like it has a lot of power. Unfortunately our cars don't have a lot of power."

They were talking about a stock car, not one that had a turbo installed. I said EXACTLY the same thing. There is no reason to go to either a staggered setup or wide tires/wheels with the stock engine for performance reasons. Please go back and read my posts. I said once you move to a turbo, there are arguments to be made for a staggered setup to handle the increased power. Once you spend the money on a turbo, which is significant, if you want the most performance from it, you should consider a staggered setup. They also said that they were not commenting on the stupidity (from a performance standpoint) of putting on wide wheels/tires and lowering the car substantially.

Again, if you're going to spend good money to increase your hp by 50%, you shouldn't go halfway in terms of modifying your suspension to get the best performance. That's why....

[churchx]

And again, if car grip is more understeer or oversteer biased does not depend on what power it has. Unless you plan to drive only in point and shoot manner of discarding trying to keep speed up in corners and flooring in straits to make up for that. Even if you have twice the power, just like with stock power, one doesn't accel throughout whole corner. Or if one can, one entered corner with too slow of a speed for that corner, well below tire max grip. Hmm, have you ever taken your BRZ to track?
I never denied that wider tires have their merits on car with forced induction added, as unlike at stock power levels, engine has oumph to overcome increased rolling resistance/weight of heavier/wider wheels/tires, but higher lateral grip will still be there. I'm just saying to put as wide tires in front too, for grip bias to not be skewed from what is designed/engineered into specific car's suspension, brakes, nannies, to lessen work/time/money spent on working around/fixing wrong tire choice due some empirical misconception. Also if you intend to mod suspension, for aftermarket parts to work better on it, as they (eg. coilovers spring rates/dampening rates) also expect square setup. Also experiences of others will be better applicable, such as preferable alignment settings and such.
P.S.
If you never will track it, and daily drive only, you can get by with staggered setup. If one drives within legal limits and with nannies on, in most cases one will not feel illeffects of many tuning mistakes, as there is always more left on plate to get safely through plain driving. But please don't mention that such choice is reasoned for more performance or for better handling. Car rear wheels indeed will slip less when you floor it in straits in drag manner, and even if fronts will lock way before rears in emergency braking, ABS & SC will save your hide. Even "enthusiastic driving/canyon runs" on public roads are far from getting close to limits, and thus feeling illeffects of mistuning, like on track.

[Icecreamtruk]

Guys guys, go back to the other thread about wider tires, one thread with non sense is enough, you gonna spread this like cancer.

But I like to cause some trouble, some here's so fuel for this fire:

You all talking about how offset doesnt do anything for performance, do you know how weight transfer and roll works and the relation between them and grip?

Wider tire doesnt make a difference in normal street driving, but suddenly, with a turbo you need wider tires, are you suddenly racing on the street because you have a turbo?

Staggered setup is for POSers, prove me wrong.