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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 10-05-2017, 08:12 AM   #71
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I was sold on the frs when I sat in it the first time and the salesman took me to some windy roads for a test drive. He did a great job of highlighting what make the twins so much fun to drive. However you need to ask yourself what kind of driving you will be doing with the car and what you tend to enjoy most while doing so. My purposes with my frs had me commuting to work and a fun weekend car. However I live in Cheyenne Wyoming where twisty roads are a scarcity and the high altitude didn't do the lack of power in the frs any favors. Long story short in those conditions I just wasn't having any fun with it and more often then not found myself frustrated with the power. I ended up trading it in on a mustang gt and haven't looked back. I had reservations about the power when I first bought the frs and these reservation turned out to be justified in my particular case. My recommendation is to be honest with yourself. I could have saved myself $5k had a been more honest with myself from the beginning.

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Old 10-05-2017, 11:52 AM   #72
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I drove a new Civic Si yesterday.

More power than the 86. Quieter than the 86. Easier to see out of. Slight turbo lag. Nice shifter, yet not as direct as 86. Comfortable seats. Possibly more standard equipment than 86. Is cheaper than an 86 at just over $24,000.


Sorry though, just does not fit my body or my mental state as well as the 86. I just don't feel like a kid with a toy the way I do in an 86.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:08 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ToySub1946 View Post
I drove a new Civic Si yesterday.

More power than the 86. Quieter than the 86. Easier to see out of. Slight turbo lag. Nice shifter, yet not as direct as 86. Comfortable seats. Possibly more standard equipment than 86. Is cheaper than an 86 at just over $24,000.


Sorry though, just does not fit my body or my mental state as well as the 86. I just don't feel like a kid with a toy the way I do in an 86.


Wrong wheel drive.
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Old 10-06-2017, 01:06 AM   #74
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Who'd get a BRZ as a DD? 2 doors 1 back seat (0.5 + 0.5) no torque.(aka bad for city/traffic driving) I'd go Fiesta ST, Civic SI for daily. Both superior cars for that use case.

A fun car to take on the track and back road. RWD Lightweight NA all the way.(BRZ)

If you really want a BRZ i would suggest buying two cars. A users 2013/2014 BRZ/FRS for 15-20k and a used civic 2010-2014 civic for 10-15k for DD. Those in total roughly equal top of the line brand new BRZ.
Vast majority of people only drive themselves to work and only have 1 person in the car, so perfect DD. Torque isn't an issue when you are going to get the automatic of course because we're talking about DD's here and you want the most practical thing for traffic, right? Turbo is just going to add complexity and expense, not good for a DD that need to be 100% reliable.

Oh, and you recommend a normal Civic that has even LESS torque than the BRZ...

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Originally Posted by OND View Post
Based on my experience with previous gen Civic, it had: faster steering rack, longer and much smoother shifter throws, better pedal placement, firmer clutch with lower bite point, smoother and better sounding engine, more solid interior (much less rattling) and better stereo.

Those little things combined matter much more than RWD vs FWD when daily driving.
No idea on steering rack, wasn't obvious enough for me to notice. Shifter is abysmal vagueness as all FWD cable based shifters are (long throws are NOT a good thing, m'kay?). Pedal placement I disagree with but whatever. Firmer clutch sucks in traffic, and bite point that low makes ti harder to shift fast. Engine sound, well, that's opinion. I don't have rattles so...moot point. Stereo I didn't tinker with.

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Just cause you DD a BRZ doesn't mean its the best car for DD. I never said you cannot DD a BRZ. I stated fiesta ST and civic SI are superior cars for that use case. I stand by that claim. Driving on weekends/track is a fun/hobby. Daily driving is a chore. Hence the ST and SI are half way between. Fun car yet practical to handle the chores of daily use cases. I don't see why everyone is up defending the BRZ as a DD. You can DD whatever you want. But your choice isn't necessarily the right choice for OP or the majority.

Please note underlined words. Are your post defending your decision or helping the OP make the best decision?
Toyota MR-S is impractical. It literally doesn't have enough room to hold carry on luggage in it's trunk. But it would make an amazing DD if I only had to get to work.

As I've told other people that get pissy about practicality. Just give up now and buy a damn minivan. It's the single most practical vehicle out there.

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Please no personal attacks.
I do not personally attack you and I hope to be treated the same.

I am going to say again. DDing a BRZ is not in the wrong. It may work for YOUR
scenario. But that scenario may not transfer to majority of motorist.
Having the BRZ as your only car to do everything I believe is a poor choice for most. The key here is understanding that not everyone is a single person between ages of 19-35. For that demographic the BRZ may be a fine daily driver. But majority of people won't find the BRZ practical enough for their needs.

If you regularly drive more then 1 person around(large portion of people):
a four door vehicle is superior
This is simply 100% untrue. The vast majority of people only have themselves in the car daily. This is why carpool lanes work, because there are less cars going into it, so traffic is lower!

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Originally Posted by Elliotw View Post
If you regularly pick up medium to large items:
BRZ cargo volume: 6.9 ft³
Fiesta ST cargo volume: 10.1 to 14.9 ft³, 25.4 ft³ with seat area
Comparing only the truck to a hatchback with the seats up and down is kinda lame. Not to mention our truck is about the size of a Camaro's, and because of the absurdly small opening on the Camaro, it can't carry crap. If you want to haul, get a van or truck, period.

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Torque dip: the torque dip in the middle of the rev range is not good for daily driving maneuvers. you may be required to shift to get the power you want.
Other turbo power plants wont require this you can just put your foot down.
Do you even drive this car? You shift before the torque dip in normal driving. If you need to hustle, downshift. Oh, wait, we're talking about DD's here so you have an auto, moot point.

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Just because another user DDs their BRZ doesn't prove its a great DD. This is a sample bias of the forums. I am happy that many users here are able to have the BRZ as their only car and for DD purposes. But, don't think your decision is right beyond your scenario. Look at the facts of the vehicles you will see other cars just offer way more practicality and similar performance.
I'll agree on this. The issue is your DD definition is changing goalposts too often. DD's are simple transportation to work and back, not that rare trip to the hardware store to remodel your kitchen. By definition, the best DD is a motorcycle and always has been, but as I don't want to show up to work drenched in sweat I don't go this route

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Stop by a Subifest sometime.

If you can find it through the vapor


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Originally Posted by ToySub1946 View Post
I drove a new Civic Si yesterday.

More power than the 86. Quieter than the 86. Easier to see out of. Slight turbo lag. Nice shifter, yet not as direct as 86. Comfortable seats. Possibly more standard equipment than 86. Is cheaper than an 86 at just over $24,000.


Sorry though, just does not fit my body or my mental state as well as the 86. I just don't feel like a kid with a toy the way I do in an 86.
More power? These cars are dead set in performance figures stock for stock. BRZ is slightly faster 0-60, while the Si is slightly faster 0-100. 1/4 mile times are the same. The issue is the exact same that's always been plaguing the twins: SHIT TIRES. Comparable tires would change the game.

I wish my BRZ was quieter at this point. I knew I should have bought the header first not second. E85 tune only makes it's louder.

Sports cars are always hard to see out of, the twins are very good in this area, but not compared to normal econoboxes.

Turbo will always have some lag, made worse by restrictive factory exhaust to shut them up. I'd be curious to see how well these Si's can be modified compared to the old Hondas.

FWD shifters are always terrible. Lots of people complain of "notchness" of a direct shifter, but those people aren't car people and would never understand the love of gated shifters of old.

BRZ seats would be better with adjustable lumbar, my only complaint. They're 9/10th a racing seat in their shape so you either fit them or not, which can be an issue.

Yep, ultimately it's a supped up econobox and not a bespoke performance car. This same issue crops up in every other car in this segment except for the Miata/Fiat Spider. Some are worse than others though, like the boring GTI...
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:23 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
Yep, ultimately it's a supped up econobox and not a bespoke performance car. This same issue crops up in every other car in this segment except for the Miata/Fiat Spider. Some are worse than others though, like the boring GTI...


The GTI is an absolutely fantastic car, and not comparable at all to a twin or a Miata. Yes, like all hot hatches, it is based off of an economy car and therefore does not have the sporty potential of a ground up design like a twin. It still does what it was built for very well, and a heck of a lot better than any other hot hatch I might add.


These cars aren't really even in the same segment in terms of anything other than price point. Even the twins and the Miata hardly fit together but hot hatches are nowhere near it.
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:01 AM   #76
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I've never been to a track but I also put heavy miles on my cars, my 2017 Prius V has around 40,000+ miles on it. I'm buying something on Wednesday...
Wow, that many miles in that short of time! You might just want to hold onto that Prius, as it will save you hundreds of dollars every year, versus going with a Civic or BRZ that you have to put 91+ octane in it, for 30-34 mpg.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:04 AM   #77
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But the torque though lmao


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
Vast majority of people only drive themselves to work and only have 1 person in the car, so perfect DD. Torque isn't an issue when you are going to get the automatic of course because we're talking about DD's here and you want the most practical thing for traffic, right? Turbo is just going to add complexity and expense, not good for a DD that need to be 100% reliable.

Oh, and you recommend a normal Civic that has even LESS torque than the BRZ...



No idea on steering rack, wasn't obvious enough for me to notice. Shifter is abysmal vagueness as all FWD cable based shifters are (long throws are NOT a good thing, m'kay?). Pedal placement I disagree with but whatever. Firmer clutch sucks in traffic, and bite point that low makes ti harder to shift fast. Engine sound, well, that's opinion. I don't have rattles so...moot point. Stereo I didn't tinker with.



Toyota MR-S is impractical. It literally doesn't have enough room to hold carry on luggage in it's trunk. But it would make an amazing DD if I only had to get to work.

As I've told other people that get pissy about practicality. Just give up now and buy a damn minivan. It's the single most practical vehicle out there.



Well shit, guess I'm out then



This is simply 100% untrue. The vast majority of people only have themselves in the car daily. This is why carpool lanes work, because there are less cars going into it, so traffic is lower!



Comparing only the truck to a hatchback with the seats up and down is kinda lame. Not to mention our truck is about the size of a Camaro's, and because of the absurdly small opening on the Camaro, it can't carry crap. If you want to haul, get a van or truck, period.



Do you even drive this car? You shift before the torque dip in normal driving. If you need to hustle, downshift. Oh, wait, we're talking about DD's here so you have an auto, moot point.



I'll agree on this. The issue is your DD definition is changing goalposts too often. DD's are simple transportation to work and back, not that rare trip to the hardware store to remodel your kitchen. By definition, the best DD is a motorcycle and always has been, but as I don't want to show up to work drenched in sweat I don't go this route







More power? These cars are dead set in performance figures stock for stock. BRZ is slightly faster 0-60, while the Si is slightly faster 0-100. 1/4 mile times are the same. The issue is the exact same that's always been plaguing the twins: SHIT TIRES. Comparable tires would change the game.

I wish my BRZ was quieter at this point. I knew I should have bought the header first not second. E85 tune only makes it's louder.

Sports cars are always hard to see out of, the twins are very good in this area, but not compared to normal econoboxes.

Turbo will always have some lag, made worse by restrictive factory exhaust to shut them up. I'd be curious to see how well these Si's can be modified compared to the old Hondas.

FWD shifters are always terrible. Lots of people complain of "notchness" of a direct shifter, but those people aren't car people and would never understand the love of gated shifters of old.

BRZ seats would be better with adjustable lumbar, my only complaint. They're 9/10th a racing seat in their shape so you either fit them or not, which can be an issue.

Yep, ultimately it's a supped up econobox and not a bespoke performance car. This same issue crops up in every other car in this segment except for the Miata/Fiat Spider. Some are worse than others though, like the boring GTI...
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:14 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToySub1946 View Post
I drove a new Civic Si yesterday.

More power than the 86. Quieter than the 86. Easier to see out of. Slight turbo lag. Nice shifter, yet not as direct as 86. Comfortable seats. Possibly more standard equipment than 86. Is cheaper than an 86 at just over $24,000.


Sorry though, just does not fit my body or my mental state as well as the 86. I just don't feel like a kid with a toy the way I do in an 86.
Love it, nothing beats that feeling when playing with your favorite toy. You can add as much power to a souped up hatch as much as you want. Will never give me that:

"Buy me, buy me, buy me now" feeling you get when you sit in a twin.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:20 AM   #79
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This is why carpool lanes work, because there are less cars going into it, so traffic is lower!
While everything else you wrote seems to be spot on, this struck a nerve with me. Carpool lanes don't work. Too many people were cheating, so most metros with carpool lanes now have them restricted with poles or walls. Since they're restricted, you can't get out of them once you're in there. Then it only takes one dipshit to drive along five miles under the speed limit to screw everybody behind him. And make no mistake, there WILL be such a dipshit.

So you offer a ride to a bunch of people you can't really stand or you pay an extra toll to use the express lane, only to be stuck watching the traffic in the "slow" lanes passing you. Everyone would be better off if they just got rid of the restrictions and made it a regular travel lane.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:36 AM   #80
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PIVOT!



While everything else you wrote seems to be spot on, this struck a nerve with me. Carpool lanes don't work. Too many people were cheating, so most metros with carpool lanes now have them restricted with poles or walls. Since they're restricted, you can't get out of them once you're in there. Then it only takes one dipshit to drive along five miles under the speed limit to screw everybody behind him. And make no mistake, there WILL be such a dipshit.

So you offer a ride to a bunch of people you can't really stand or you pay an extra toll to use the express lane, only to be stuck watching the traffic in the "slow" lanes passing you. Everyone would be better off if they just got rid of the restrictions and made it a regular travel lane.

What they need is a dedicated lane just for Semi-trucks. I would love that.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:38 AM   #81
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Who'd get a BRZ as a DD?....
My question would be why would you buy a DD you don't enjoy driving, particularly if you can only own one car, given this is where you will spend the majority of your driving time?

The vast majority of all cars, not just the 86, when purchased new are daily drivers. Yes, some people buy new cars as a "toy" but it's really pretty rare particularly in a car that sells in the volume of the 86 (which, while not in Mustang/Camaro league in terms of sales still is produced in relatively large numbers for a sports car).

There is nothing about the 86 that makes it a non-daily driver to me (I've done that for almost 110K miles now). It's fun to drive, great on gas mileage, and hauls everything I need to get back and forth to work, plus some. No reason for me to buy another similar car (in size, capability) just because it has a few more doors are a little more legroom.

Not to mention I can pretty much carry anything in an 86 I could carry in a Civic.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:12 AM   #82
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PIVOT!



While everything else you wrote seems to be spot on, this struck a nerve with me. Carpool lanes don't work. Too many people were cheating, so most metros with carpool lanes now have them restricted with poles or walls. Since they're restricted, you can't get out of them once you're in there. Then it only takes one dipshit to drive along five miles under the speed limit to screw everybody behind him. And make no mistake, there WILL be such a dipshit.

So you offer a ride to a bunch of people you can't really stand or you pay an extra toll to use the express lane, only to be stuck watching the traffic in the "slow" lanes passing you. Everyone would be better off if they just got rid of the restrictions and made it a regular travel lane.
The first time I ever saw an toll express lane was a couple of weeks back when I was in Atlanta. It was pretty much empty even though the rest were packed. I thought at the time "if that was just another lane it would relieve at least a bit of the congestion". Now of course there could be times when it is packed and I just missed them but it seemed like quite a waste.

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What they need is a dedicated lane just for Semi-trucks. I would love that.
Or have the right lane only law and enforce it! A truck doing 70.5 mph passing one doing 70.3 mph and blocking the left lane for miles is one of my few triggers for road rage.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:36 AM   #83
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The first time I ever saw an toll express lane was a couple of weeks back when I was in Atlanta. It was pretty much empty even though the rest were packed. I thought at the time "if that was just another lane it would relieve at least a bit of the congestion". Now of course there could be times when it is packed and I just missed them but it seemed like quite a waste.
Those lanes used to be standard carpool (double occupancy/motorcycles/and some EV cars) but then the government figured out how to monetize them. I was tolerant of it when they were carpool lanes (and even used them to my benefit on occasions) but the current system is basically pay to play. I'm surprised the 1% haters aren't all over these since it basically benefits those willing and/or capable of paying for the rates that rise as the need for the lanes rise.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:34 PM   #84
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The first time I ever saw an toll express lane was a couple of weeks back when I was in Atlanta. It was pretty much empty even though the rest were packed. I thought at the time "if that was just another lane it would relieve at least a bit of the congestion". Now of course there could be times when it is packed and I just missed them but it seemed like quite a waste.



Or have the right lane only law and enforce it! A truck doing 70.5 mph passing one doing 70.3 mph and blocking the left lane for miles is one of my few triggers for road rage.
Goddamn, don't get me started. We have this non-stop with all drivers. California needs to pull down all the "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT" signs, replace them with signs that read, "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS," and then summarily execute every single fucking person found sitting in the lefthand lanes for no reason. I swear to god people in this state are actually allergic to the right lane-- not uncommon at all to see traffic piling up in the left two lanes (seriously, queues of like 20 cars in the number one lane all tailgating each other ferociously while driving 70mph) and literally not another vehicle in the right lane for MILES. Actual, real-life, non-metaphorical miles. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Also, carpool lanes are stupid as fuck. It's just a lane that has one car per mile in it, and those drivers are almost always the kind of stupid ****heads that think, "My car has more than one person in it, ergo I must drive in the carpool lane," then proceed to occupy the carpool lane at a speed lower than that of the traffic around them.

God I hate people a lot. They are really bad at cars.
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