Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[Williampreza]

Originally Posted by spike021

For Memorial Day do you typically celebrate only the ones who have died in combat, or also vets who are still alive/survived their service?

I believe the latter are officially honored on Veterans Day


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[spike021]

Originally Posted by Williampreza

I believe the latter are officially honored on Veterans Day


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Yeah, that's how I've usually done it. But I also know of people who do both. (shrug)

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by spike021

Yeah, that's how I've usually done it. But I also know of people who do both. (shrug)

For me, Memorial Day is a time of reflection on how cruel we can be to each other.

Veterans' day is more celebration that I survived it.

And, unless coming from another vet, I have mixed feelings about being thanked for my service.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by spike021

For Memorial Day do you typically celebrate only the ones who have died in combat, or also vets who are still alive/survived their service?

For me, Memorial Day is a day of remembering the men and women who died while serving.


humfrz

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

For me, Memorial Day is a time of reflection on how cruel we can be to each other.

Veterans' day is more celebration that I survived it.

And, unless coming from another vet, I have mixed feelings about being thanked for my service.

What mixed feelings do you have and why?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by spike021

For Memorial Day do you typically celebrate only the ones who have died in combat, or also vets who are still alive/survived their service?

Canada covers everybody in one day. Less confusing

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Spuds

What mixed feelings do you have and why?

@Ultramaroon ..


I have the same question; I frequently thank veterans and active military for their service, with complete sincerity and awe for the sacrifices they made or are making for me and my family. Once in a while, I've just sort of felt a vibe that the person I was thanking wasn't happy with me for doing so. I didn't understand, and still,don't, but the last thing I'd want to do would be to sleight someone who gave so much to their country. Can you help me understand? Service folks don't pay for their beverages in my presence, either. One of my very few regrets in life is the fact that by the time I realized just how much service folks give to us all, I was too old to serve myself. Stupid, selfish youth, speaking solely for myself.


Whether or not you want to hear it, Ultra...thank you, sincerely.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

@Ultramaroon ..


I have the same question; I frequently thank veterans and active military for their service, with complete sincerity and awe for the sacrifices they made or are making for me and my family. Once in a while, I've just sort of felt a vibe that the person I was thanking wasn't happy with me for doing so. I didn't understand, and still,don't, but the last thing I'd want to do would be to sleight someone who gave so much to their country. Can you help me understand? Service folks don't pay for their beverages in my presence, either. One of my very few regrets in life is the fact that by the time I realized just how much service folks give to us all, I was too old to serve myself. Stupid, selfish youth, speaking solely for myself.


Whether or not you want to hear it, Ultra...thank you, sincerely.

My oldest son, an advanced two tour sniper, hates when people thank him. He killed lots of people. He does not talk about it. The only bits about it I have heard is when we drink together, even then very little. He does not talk about it. Killing people, even bad people is something that fucks with your brain. We are lucky he is still level headed. I tell him people are greatful, and he is a hero. He still will not wear anything army. He doesn't want to talk about it. Everyone is different.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

For me, Memorial Day is a time of reflection on how cruel we can be to each other.

Veterans' day is more celebration that I survived it.

And, unless coming from another vet, I have mixed feelings about being thanked for my service.

I feel the same.

Originally Posted by Spuds

What mixed feelings do you have and why?

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

@Ultramaroon ..


I have the same question; I frequently thank veterans and active military for their service, with complete sincerity and awe for the sacrifices they made or are making for me and my family. Once in a while, I've just sort of felt a vibe that the person I was thanking wasn't happy with me for doing so. I didn't understand, and still,don't, but the last thing I'd want to do would be to sleight someone who gave so much to their country. Can you help me understand? Service folks don't pay for their beverages in my presence, either. One of my very few regrets in life is the fact that by the time I realized just how much service folks give to us all, I was too old to serve myself. Stupid, selfish youth, speaking solely for myself.


Whether or not you want to hear it, Ultra...thank you, sincerely.

Don't know if Ultra has an answer for you guys but I know I don't. Would love to say some insightful comments such as "We we just doing our job" or "somebody had to" but those are not how I think of the subject. There is something buried someplace in my mind that makes me uncomfortable sometimes when somebody says thanks.
I will politely decline free drinks, refuse to get veterans plates for my car to take advantage of the system and in general just do not want any special treatment. At the same time it does not bother me in the least to share my stories or history.

[Ultramaroon]

A majority of those who enlist don't do so because they want to. We enlisted because it was our best option at the time. For me, life quickly became all about those with whom I served and making the best of it. In the end, hip deep in the spook business, I felt like I didn't make a bit of a difference and learned way more about the good-ol'-boy network than I ever wanted.

I'm always polite and appreciative when someone thanks me but, unless it comes from someone else who tasted the shit sandwich, I cringe on the inside. My closest family and friends know how much and why. It's nothing exciting but I came out the other side a pacifist.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Don't know if Ultra has an answer for you guys but I know I don't. Would love to say some insightful comments such as "We we just doing our job" or "somebody had to" but those are not how I think of the subject. There is something buried someplace in my mind that makes me uncomfortable sometimes when somebody says thanks.
I will politely decline free drinks, refuse to get veterans plates for my car to take advantage of the system and in general just do not want any special treatment. At the same time it does not bother me in the least to share my stories or history.

OMG, so much this. Absolutely. It's like that joke:

"How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

"Um, I dunno."

"THAT'S RIGHT! You DON'T know 'cause you weren't THERE, MAN!"

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

My oldest son, an advanced two tour sniper, hates when people thank him. He killed lots of people. He does not talk about it. The only bits about it I have heard is when we drink together, even then very little. He does not talk about it. Killing people, even bad people is something that fucks with your brain. We are lucky he is still level headed. I tell him people are greatful, and he is a hero. He still will not wear anything army. He doesn't want to talk about it. Everyone is different.

He is a bit of a different mater from the vast majority of the military. Even in times of conflict there are tens of thousands of military personnel that never directly harmed a soul for every one that actually killed somebody. I don't recall the exact number but during WW2 there was only something like 5% of the U.S. military that directly killed a person. If you count all the people that have served since WW2 even counting the conflicts that occurred you would have a percentage with so may zeros after the decimal point to be almost meaningless. Those very few (in the big picture) that do have to kill directly can deal with it in many ways. As long as they DEAL with it!

[MuseChaser]

Edit: This was in reply to Ultra's first reply.. sorry for the confusion.. a couple more replies came in as I was typing. Should have quoted





Original:



Ooops.. I thanked you again.. .. sorry about that..


In all seriousness, that makes sense. Whether one's enlistment was by choice or simply because it seemed to be the best option at the time, it doesn't change the fact that, in many ways, service people are often put in positions that the vast majority of the populace would either not be willing to be in, or would simply be unequipped physically and/or emotionally to endure. In any hierarchy, an undeniable amount of idiocy is no doubt present, and decisions often fly in the face of logic and sanity. This, at least to me, in no way lessens my appreciation for those that endure and serve.



I, too, am a pacifist. I have a strong adversion to conflict and ill will... until someone clearly intends to harm my family or innocents around me. I don't see military personnel as blood-thirsty killers, but rather as people who have seen some of the worst humanity has to offer and have probably the most reason of all of us to avoid and abhor atrocities.



Enough. Thanks, T and Ultra, for the insight. To be honest, I'm not sure what to do with it in the future.. feels bad to NOT say thank you to a vet, but on the other hand I get it.

[spike021]

Thanks for the answers!

It's something I've sort of subconsciously questioned for a while.

I never served so it's hard for me to really judge or properly consider it. But I tend to think of my grandfather who is way past 90 and served in WWII at 16 y/o after escaping the Holocaust in Germany, etc. etc.

He's still alive, but he had a hard life. Having to serve especially after such a traumatic childhood certainly took a toll, and it's much more noticeable now than when I knew him as a younger grandfather.

So I wonder.. he's not dead so I don't want to memorialize him that way. But do I want to memorialize what he was before, and the fact that the world forced him to take that path?

I feel that other service members (not necessarily most, even) have similar stories. So when I think about even the living vets, I wonder if we should recognize them beyond just Veteran's day, because to me Veteran's day tends to be more of a "thanks for your service, let's have a bbq and pool party".

Hope that makes sense.