follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2016, 06:17 PM   #15
Jmonty
Realtor/ Principal Broker
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: JRSC BRZ GBS LTD 2010 LTD Outback
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 899
Thanks: 806
Thanked 218 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Remember that the OEM header also has a cat, which retains a TON of heat.

Since there's interest, if anyone is willing to do this kind of thermal testing with the ceramic coating CSG offers, we'll be willing to offer you a rebate or store credit when your data is posted. PM me directly to purchase and claim.

what does the ceramic coating run?
Jmonty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 07:24 PM   #16
Hawk77FT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: GTS 86
Location: Australia
Posts: 989
Thanks: 873
Thanked 475 Times in 272 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
I have owned few headers so far, and all of them have been ceramic coated. Recently, I have installed an un coated header and was blown away by the temperature difference between coated and un coated (same header). I cannot recommend the ceramic coating strongly enough, tbh. Whoever does it for you, make sure they do 1. true ceramic coating, 2. do the inside of it as well!


Ceramic vs wrap -
Wrap is probably a cheaper alternative and probably as effective. Things to consider: use titanium wrap, no need for a sealant. Make sure you sue proper metal straps (or alternatively steel wire).
Ceramic - this can only be done by a professional (not a DIY). Make sure you ask for the inside to be done as well.
If I was to chose between them two, I would go ceramic coating mainly because it protects the inside and the outside of the header.


Some info I found online
Ceramic Coated Exhaust Parts
This is a spray-on finish that’s infused with heat-insulating ceramics. It is not a DIY solution, these exhaust parts are coated at the factory, or sent to a facility with the proper equipment.
Pros
•Provides the biggest horsepower gains when compared to other exhaust insulation methods
•Reduces under-hood temperatures better than other types of exhaust insulation
•The ceramic coating is applied evenly on both the inside and outside of the exhaust pipes, preventing “hot spots” that can cause metal fatigue
•Improves the laminar flow of your exhaust gasses
•Prevents rust and corrosion of the ceramic coated parts
•Looks great—some coatings resemble chrome plating
Ceramic Coated Headers

Cons
•High-quality, ceramic coated exhaust parts are more expensive
•Manufacturers use a special process to apply the coating. While the coating is durable, the part will have to be sent back to them for repair if you manage to chip it
•Coatings may dull in appearance over time

Header & Exhaust Wraps

Exhaust Wrap
This is a fiberglass or composite fabric that wraps around, and insulates, exhaust system components. It is a DIY solution that can be added to nearly any exhaust part, stock or aftermarket.
Pros
•Adds a few extra horsepower when used on stock or performance pipes
•Reduces under hood temps, prolonging the life of fragile engine parts and hoses
•Easy to install and more affordable than buying ceramic coated parts
•Custom wrap anything you want
Header & Exhaust Wrap

Cons
•Only insulates the outside of exhaust parts
•Exhaust wraps may absorb moisture from the road and cause rusting if your tubes aren’t made from stainless steel


Ceramic & wrap.
I have done a fair bit of research on this and it looks like this is a no no. The main purpose of ceramic coating retaining the heat within the exhaust gas instead of transferring it through the piping of the vehicle which will result in an increase in power. This occurs because the exhaust gases stay hotter longer which allows them to leave the vehicle at higher velocities. Ceramic coating will do that without a problem. The wrap to a ceramic coated header would do more damage than good, I believe. The temperatures in the actual header will be even higher and the scavenging effect slightly better however, not giving any room for heat to dissipate could reach the 304 steel temperature threshold which could cause greater expanding and potentially cracks. I am talking here about the ones that take the car to the track on regular basis.
Knowing that this header moves a fair amount of hot exhaust gases it might not be an issue and I could be wrong.
Hawk77FT is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hawk77FT For This Useful Post:
AceHeader-MT (03-20-2016), Hostile_Kittens (07-05-2016), Teseo (03-21-2016)
Old 03-21-2016, 03:47 AM   #17
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmonty View Post
what does the ceramic coating run?
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe somewhere in the realm of 375-400 for both inside and outside of the Ace header. Both header and overpipe.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Jmonty (03-21-2016)
Old 03-21-2016, 01:40 PM   #18
Jmonty
Realtor/ Principal Broker
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: JRSC BRZ GBS LTD 2010 LTD Outback
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 899
Thanks: 806
Thanked 218 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I should be installing and re-tuning this weekend
Jmonty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 12:48 AM   #19
Hyper4mance2k
Shadetree Project Ratchet
 
Hyper4mance2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: series.Blue
Location: PWC, VA
Posts: 1,011
Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 634 Times in 376 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmonty View Post
what does the ceramic coating run?
The header that is currently on my car was coated inside & out for $125.
Swaintech usually charges $250 for White Lightning on a 4 cylinder header.
If you're paying more than $200 (minus shipping and taxes) for a 4 cylinder header, I suggest you assert some more due diligence in your shopping.
performance coatings did all my rotary stuff for, depending on the header/manifold, between $80-120.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe somewhere in the realm of 375-400 for both inside and outside of the Ace header. Both header and overpipe.
God I hope you haven't payed that much!!
PC charges $390 for a pair of SBC long tube headers.

p.s. I've never found a place that doesn't do inside and outside.
__________________
The Shadetree Project: I turn wrenches
Hyper4mance2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 01:02 AM   #20
tracerit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: '13 SSM BRZ Limited 6MT
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 593
Thanked 198 Times in 137 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Should both header and overpipe be coated or just the header itself will be okay?
tracerit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 01:04 AM   #21
Hyper4mance2k
Shadetree Project Ratchet
 
Hyper4mance2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: series.Blue
Location: PWC, VA
Posts: 1,011
Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 634 Times in 376 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracerit View Post
Should both header and overpipe be coated or just the header itself will be okay?
Both are under the hood. Both radiate heat. you decide.
__________________
The Shadetree Project: I turn wrenches
Hyper4mance2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 01:14 AM   #22
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k View Post
The header that is currently on my car was coated inside & out for $125.
Swaintech usually charges $250 for White Lightning on a 4 cylinder header.
If you're paying more than $200 (minus shipping and taxes) for a 4 cylinder header, I suggest you assert some more due diligence in your shopping.
performance coatings did all my rotary stuff for, depending on the header/manifold, between $80-120.



God I hope you haven't payed that much!!
PC charges $390 for a pair of SBC long tube headers.

p.s. I've never found a place that doesn't do inside and outside.
I can't disclose what else and who else CSG's ceramic coater services due to NDA, but lets just leave it at MAJOR MAJOR race teams, including some series where, literally, every team in the series uses their ceramic coatings. These teams range from grassroots racers, all the way up to *cough* top series in the world.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but generally speaking, CSG only uses the best, even when it's in diminishing returns territory. The same could be said about ceramic coating pistons, and WPC treating friction surfaces.

One that I can disclose, however, is SpaceX. ALL of the SpaceX ceramics are provided by our source.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Hyper4mance2k (03-23-2016)
Old 03-22-2016, 06:16 AM   #23
ajc209
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: GT86 Cosworth
Location: UK
Posts: 753
Thanks: 361
Thanked 270 Times in 188 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Bare in mind, when you ceramic coat an exhaust part it pushes the heat backwards. So in the case of the ACE manifold if you coat both parts, you'll be putting more heat into the frontpipe.
ajc209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 11:10 AM   #24
churchx
Senior Member
 
churchx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
ajc209: hence 2ndary cat will be heated up sooner - good for car's green-ness in track prepped form, lol
churchx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 02:38 PM   #25
sickmint79
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: bmw
Location: grayslake, il
Posts: 393
Thanks: 16
Thanked 142 Times in 84 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k View Post
I think swain tech white lightning is the best coating. When I finally can afford an ACE header, I will coat it and wrap it. Wrap holds moisture against the raw metal leaving it exposed to risk of oxydation. If you ceramic coat and wrap a header you should be fine. Ceramic coating acts as a complete seal against the elements. If you manage to find a place that doesnt include coating the inside of the header along with the exterior, walk out and don't look back.
White lightning is a real ceramic coating, and not a blend like most powder coaters use.
I've used wrap on mild steel headers with only some BBQ high temp paint, and they've lasted 5+ years and showed no sings of wear when I sold them off.
I also have done ceramic coating from www.performancecoatings.com with wrap on high HP rotary builds that showed zero signs of wear after years of daily driving in Seattle, of all places.
fyi swaintech ceramic is only done on the outside. it's the paints that they will do both the inside and the outside. they also charge for multiple pieces ie. the JDL EL header is actually 2 pieces, so more $.



__________________
PointMeBy - auto enthusiast / 86 / car blog - https://www.pointmeby.com
IGoByPlane - travel/credit/auto experience blog - https://www.igobyplane.com
sickmint79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 04:07 AM   #26
Hyper4mance2k
Shadetree Project Ratchet
 
Hyper4mance2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: series.Blue
Location: PWC, VA
Posts: 1,011
Thanks: 1,575
Thanked 634 Times in 376 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
fyi swaintech ceramic is only done on the outside. it's the paints that they will do both the inside and the outside. they also charge for multiple pieces ie. the JDL EL header is actually 2 pieces, so more $.



That's good to know, but I wasn't speaking about Swaintech's White Lighting. I was talking about other ceramic coating options that can, and should, be done inside and out. I should've made that more clear.

I've been using these guys in the late 90s. http://performancecoatings.com/exhaust-coatings/4392428
__________________
The Shadetree Project: I turn wrenches

Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 09-24-2017 at 04:18 AM.
Hyper4mance2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 01:13 PM   #27
Ernest72
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Drives: 16 Silver BRZ, 04 Silver WRX wagon
Location: Rockland county, NY
Posts: 1,410
Thanks: 181
Thanked 768 Times in 439 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wondering if anyone has tried putting some flared vents in the metal splash shield. I am thinking it might pull some of the heat out of the engine bay. I have them on a Beatrush skid plate on my 04 WRX. Just thinking about how to cool it down now that I have a coated JDL UEL header installed.
Ernest72 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
ace, header, heat, temperature

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What temperature do you put A/C on? FRiSson New England 23 06-13-2016 08:55 AM
Open Flash Header - Sound and Performance Comparison nlowell Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 41 05-19-2014 06:29 PM
Borla R&D: Comparison UEL v EL Header 2013 Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ RiskyTrousers Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 155 08-16-2013 09:05 PM
Header comparison. NO E85 NickFRS Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 29 05-16-2013 04:01 PM
Header comparison itwillboost Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 1 03-19-2013 12:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.