Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by MINOCIN

For the guys & gals out there running Delicious Tuning's latest 8.59 tune. Have you noticed any sluggishness/delay in your throttle response after updating? I've been running on 8.59 for almost a week now and I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing or if it's just me.

Now before I continue I want to make it clear that while I may be complaining a bit, I offer it as constructive criticism. My intention is not to be negative and in no way am I upset. In no way should my criticism be seen as an attempt to blemish Delicious Tuning's reputation and work. I have the utmost respect for Bill and I truly appreciate his dedication to this platform and to his clients. A lot of us Innovate guys run on a Delicious tune because we know that they are awesome, and with that I would like to share my experience so far with the 8.59 tune.

After reflashing the ecu I have noticed the following:

- exhaust rasp has been minimized
- somewhat vague throttle response
- revs will hang/float
- at idle with no load on the engine, revving will cause the rpms to abruptly drop to 500 and then jump back to 1,000 before settling back to 800 rpm (normal idle rpm)
- smooth up/down shifts are executed more easily
- Engine breaking is a little less effective
- the car feels smoother (more casual) overall when driving around town and on the freeway

I have a manual transmission. Before installing the SC I used to rev the car out to over 5,500 rpm almost all the time. Mainly because it was fun and also because I wanted to stay clear of the torque dip. After the SC I would normally short shift below 4,300 rpm. Mainly too avoid the raspy exhaust note and also because with the extra torque down low I didn't really have to rev it out anymore. With the 8.59 tune I now rev the engine out to around 5,000 rpm. Mainly because it sounds good again and also because the car doesn't feel as fast as it used to.

It's difficult for me to explain, I feel like there is a larger disconnect now between the accelerator and the engine. The car feels slower and less responsive. Revs don't build up as quickly as they used to.

It's eerie. My right foot and butt tell me that the car is slower, but when I look at the speedometer I see that I'm actually running at a high speed. So even though I think that the car feels slower, my speed says otherwise.

I don't really care if I am indeed going a bit slower or not. Taking the car to redline when jumping on the freeway is still fun and I can never get enough of that twin screw whine, but there is just a bit less drama in driving the car now. The car feels like it has been dulled down a bit. I feel somewhat disconnected and out of sync with the car.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Maybe I just need to drive it more and over time I will get used to it, but I can't help myself from fretting over the feeling that the car feels less responsive.

Upgrade to the 8.65 tune. We sent out updates to all our Innovate customer about 3 weeks ago. If you did not receive it check your spam folder. If you still do not have it please email us through our contact page for the free update to 8.65.

Before EVERYONE emails, please check you spam folders, as stated we have mailed out updates to 8.65 to everyone on our list (spent nearly 2 days doing so) nearly 3 weeks ago.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Gotta love that crap. The guys at OFT will review and offer support regardless if its a base or custom map. Either you installed it wrong or their is something wrong with their idle data.

Open mouth, insert foot. It is neither a base or custom map. But we do assist many customer who do not have our tunes but have these kits.

As a CARB (California Air Research Board) tune, we have no legal right to address, assist or tamper with this tune for any reason what so ever. If we did or anyone for that matter we would be heavily fined for it. By the way, one legal aspect of a CARB tune is that it needs to be "locked".

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

Open mouth, insert foot. It is neither a base or custom map. But we do assist many customer who do not have our tunes but have these kits.

As a CARB (California Air Research Board) tune, we have no legal right to address, assist or tamper with this tune for any reason what so ever. If we did or anyone for that matter we would be heavily fined for it. By the way, one legal aspect of a CARB tune is that it needs to be "locked".

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Fair enough. @michael_king had an earlier post stating you do not offer support unless the tune is purchased from you. Apparently this is the impression some of your customers are left with. I didn't see a response from you offering to help and thought maybe you did not support either. Thanks for correcting me. I do not know if he is till having the same idle issue. Is it possible this is tune related?

[sickmint79]

Originally Posted by Calum

Just to make it easier to see for anyone interested.

what's the history behind these? interesting comparo. was starting to think jackson racing might be better for track, i'm between 4000-7500 rpm. on other dynos jackson seems better when up here - although this looks like a pretty solid innovate performance if this is same dyno, day, diff cars, etc.

some have noted heat soaking issues on track for the innovate, even intercooled. is this only after 20 minutes though? is it as bad with e85 or does the problem go away? what about meth injection?

after all is said and done in a month i think i'll have a pretty prepped car to drop on the stage 2 intercooled system and have a good time.

[michael_king]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Fair enough. @michael_king had an earlier post stating you do not offer support unless the tune is purchased from you. Apparently this is the impression some of your customers are left with. I didn't see a response from you offering to help and thought maybe you did not support either. Thanks for correcting me. I do not know if he is till having the same idle issue. Is it possible this is tune related?

Thanks-
I'm assuming it to be tune related so I'm going to switch to their custom tune where I can at least get support if the problem persists. I understand raising the idle setting may help, @whataboutbob said his is set to like 1100 rpm on his custom tune.
-mk

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by michael_king

Thanks-
I'm assuming it to be tune related so I'm going to switch to their custom tune where I can at least get support if the problem persists. I understand raising the idle setting may help, @whataboutbob said his is set to like 1100 rpm on his custom tune.
-mk

Is this a new install or an older install with a new idle problem?

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Fair enough. @michael_king had an earlier post stating you do not offer support unless the tune is purchased from you. Apparently this is the impression some of your customers are left with. I didn't see a response from you offering to help and thought maybe you did not support either. Thanks for correcting me. I do not know if he is till having the same idle issue. Is it possible this is tune related?

Usually what we have seen with these kits, and it is a common problem after initial installation, are the plastic vacuum elbows on the back of the charger leak. We have spoke (Innovate and myself) to Sprintex about this in length and have stated this needs to be resolved.

We found that the elbows after installation swell and shrink from heat. They shrink just enough to cause a fairly large vacuum leak on the back of the charger. So then you need to re-tighten them and they are usually fine from then on.

That is what we have seen with regards to poor idle and a host of other complaints.

If this is all taken care of then we ask what additional parts are being run on the vehicle as we have seen lightened pulleys, flywheels, cause more problems. Also Auto's with the AC on and Lights on definitely have a dip to them. Something we have raised the idle on for custom tunes, as bob stated.

The original CARB tune has a LOT less options available at the time for tuning, and since then quite a few more tables have been added to take care of idle a bit more. Like we stated before once that tune is set in place you can not change it. Definitely a draw back to the CARB tunes.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[sato]

Does that means that we would have to incur in the additional cost of a custom tune to fix these issues, even if we purchased the CARB tune?

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by sickmint79

what's the history behind these? interesting comparo. was starting to think jackson racing might be better for track, i'm between 4000-7500 rpm. on other dynos jackson seems better when up here - although this looks like a pretty solid innovate performance if this is same dyno, day, diff cars, etc.

some have noted heat soaking issues on track for the innovate, even intercooled. is this only after 20 minutes though? is it as bad with e85 or does the problem go away? what about meth injection?

after all is said and done in a month i think i'll have a pretty prepped car to drop on the stage 2 intercooled system and have a good time.

These tunes are about 3 days different from each other (same dyno, diff cars) and like you stated we expected more out of the Jackson Racing kit but were surprised to find it made less than thought. Though their CARB tune does make more than the CARB Innovate tune when comparing CARB tunes only.

But the main difference will be when upgrading, as there are no real options for the Jackson Racing kit, where as the Innovate Kit has a host of upgrades which help make quite a bit more power and it really helps the low end torque drastically.

There is some heat soak on the track when non-intercooled and when going intercoooled there are some heat soak but not nearly as much. The internal core will drops temps to well above ambient but a lot cooler then a non-intercooled setup. So even though there may be some heat soak I do not expect much.

On E85 this would just cool everything down drastically and offer great performance consistency at the track.

I personally do not like any sort of tuning for Meth Injection. No matter what you do I have never seen these systems run consistently. The flows change (not much), but enough to cause the tunes to be off all the time. Just a royal pain to tune, I will not tune for them them and do not recommend for more than just a safety margin, not tuning.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[michael_king]

Old install with new idle problem actually.. @Boofneenee

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by michael_king

Old install with new idle problem actually.. @Boofneenee

Well the tunes do not change on their own or when they feel like it. If you did not have the problem before but now you do and nothing has changed then there is a mechanical issue.

I would suggest checking for vacuum leaks.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

Well the tunes do not change on their own or when they feel like it. If you did not have the problem before but now you do and nothing has changed then there is a mechanical issue.

I would suggest checking for vacuum leaks.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Thanks Will

To help out these guys just a little further..is their a parameter (I.e AFR, engine load) that one with a tune can review of their car to sort of hone in on the problem? With. Vacuum leak I would imagine a persons AFRs would be wacky (no expert here.. You are). Would it be possible for then to simply run a log and post for us to review?

[sickmint79]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

These tunes are about 3 days different from each other (same dyno, diff cars) and like you stated we expected more out of the Jackson Racing kit but were surprised to find it made less than thought. Though their CARB tune does make more than the CARB Innovate tune when comparing CARB tunes only.

But the main difference will be when upgrading, as there are no real options for the Jackson Racing kit, where as the Innovate Kit has a host of upgrades which help make quite a bit more power and it really helps the low end torque drastically.

There is some heat soak on the track when non-intercooled and when going intercoooled there are some heat soak but not nearly as much. The internal core will drops temps to well above ambient but a lot cooler then a non-intercooled setup. So even though there may be some heat soak I do not expect much.

On E85 this would just cool everything down drastically and offer great performance consistency at the track.

I personally do not like any sort of tuning for Meth Injection. No matter what you do I have never seen these systems run consistently. The flows change (not much), but enough to cause the tunes to be off all the time. Just a royal pain to tune, I will not tune for them them and do not recommend for more than just a safety margin, not tuning.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

thanks for the comments william. interesting note on the meth injection and really interesting to see the the jrc kit. finding the innovate intercooled kit quite appealing now indeed.

i know you like the airaid - any comments on the snorkel removal from you or the group? i left mine in. i am wondering on track with the engine bay full of heat if it is better to leave the snorkel on or not.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by sickmint79

thanks for the comments william. interesting note on the meth injection and really interesting to see the the jrc kit. finding the innovate intercooled kit quite appealing now indeed.

i know you like the airaid - any comments on the snorkel removal from you or the group? i left mine in. i am wondering on track with the engine bay full of heat if it is better to leave the snorkel on or not.

Very good question on the snorkel. I know there are a couple guys on here working on a much better snorkel design that should help with better and cooler airflow to the engine.

I would imagine (just guessing) that constantly moving on the track would not have too much of an impact on removing the snorkel. Where as auto-cross or drag would be a trade off, hot air for a couple seconds versus top end power.

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Thanks Will

To help out these guys just a little further..is their a parameter (I.e AFR, engine load) that one with a tune can review of their car to sort of hone in on the problem? With. Vacuum leak I would imagine a persons AFRs would be wacky (no expert here.. You are). Would it be possible for then to simply run a log and post for us to review?

I would actually look at the Air Fuel Correction #1 and Air Fuel Learning #1 values as a starting point. They should be about +-5% at idle. If they are getting towards +25% then there is a potential leak.

Also you can check your vacuum (manifold pressure) you are pulling at idle. You should be around 4-5 PSI at idle under absolute manifold pressure or -10 PSI or 20 inHg. If you are less then this by a couple less then this, there is a good chance you have a vacuum leak also.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning