Toyota you're letting us all down.

[strat61caster]

Sounds more like a shitty dealer than anything else. None of those issues are serious (except the headlights which got fixed) and most of us deal with them.

Best of luck lemoning, you shouldn't have an issue getting it done because it sounds like your car has been at the dealership for a significant amount of time. Hope you get a car that makes you happy.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by BlueDubbinTDI

My used 2010 Golf TDI has had less rattles and chirps between 23000 and 41000 miles than my FR-S has between 168 and 7100 miles...

Rattles and chirps aren't problems (they're annoyances)...failed transmissions, phantom electrical gremlins, and repeated sensor failures are...

[FirestormFRS]

Should use the NCDS first, it's non binding but the manufacturers will in general accept the findings of the board. Winning a lemon law suit against one of the largest companies in the world is going to take up a lot of your time.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Rattles and chirps aren't problems (they're annoyances)...failed transmissions, phantom electrical gremlins, and repeated sensor failures are...

They decrease the value of the vehicle.

[Wes]

Hm.. crickets are normal. Can't fix whats not broken..
Buy aftermarket tails, look better than stock anyway.
Buy aftermarket shift knob, it'll be a better feel over stock.

As for windows and high beams, go to a different dealer.

[Seattle944t]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Cliffs:

Dealer is a douche
Crickets (common to have weird sounds on most DI vehicles) are really pissing OP off...

QFT

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Sounds more like a shitty dealer than anything else. None of those issues are serious (except the headlights which got fixed) and most of us deal with them.

Best of luck lemoning, you shouldn't have an issue getting it done because it sounds like your car has been at the dealership for a significant amount of time. Hope you get a car that makes you happy.

QFT

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

Should use the NCDS first, it's non binding but the manufacturers will in general accept the findings of the board. Winning a lemon law suit against one of the largest companies in the world is going to take up a lot of your time.

Having done a lemon law buy back [A FORD SVT], it takes about 2 hours of your time and ~$4.00 for a certified letter. Its not hard and its very clear if you qualify or not. State laws vary but if you meet the requirements there isn't any wiggle room or negotiation.
Ohio's lemon law is here:

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/I...uto/Lemon-Laws

In the first year or first 18,000 miles, whichever occurs first:
• Have three or more attempts been made to repair one problem and then the problem either continues to exist or occurs again?
• Has the vehicle been in the shop for a cumulative total of 30 days or more during its first year or 18,000 miles, whichever occurs first?
• Have eight or more attempts been made to fix different problems?
• Has one unsuccessful attempt been made to fix a problem that could cause death or serious injury?

According to that, there isn't anything here that covers a lemon return. The closest would be 30 cumulative total repair days. The extra time sitting at the dealer after the one fix where they forgot to call you doesn't count, that's just a crappy dealer, only the repair times matter.

To do a successful lemon law return only requires the following:
Write a letter that documents the issues(s) that make your car qualify under your state's lemon law. These all need to be statements of fact backed up by the documentation that supports these facts.

Mail the letter and supporting documents to the manufacture's Customer support address and wait for their response.

If your car qualifies based on the facts, the manufacture must accept it and begin the proceedings for the buy back. If your car doesn't qualify (because the facts don't support your qualifications) it will be directed to arbitration.

Originally Posted by N1rve

They decrease the value of the vehicle.

So does mileage.
Chips, rattles, creaks, are considered normal wear and tear and not manufacture defects that decrease value.

[flippy]

Originally Posted by CzRceCar

The dealer has had my car at one point for 29 days. On the 29th day I come to find out it was sitting on the lot "Fixed" for over a week and a half and they just forgot to call me.

lol it never occured to you to follow up?

[thill]

Originally Posted by vteclol

It's not about right or wrong, it's about money. You can send them all the concerned, angry letters you want and they will happily send you denials all day. Do you expect them to say "Oh our mistake, let us give you your money back"?
If you have a solid case and file with CDSP, Toyota is not going to pay someone, likely a lawyer, to go to an arbitration hearing that they are going lose. Just remember to make sure it qualifies so you don't waste any more of your time than you have to.

I compiled all my paperwork, wrote a brief summary about why the car met the criteria under the lemon law, and mailed it in to CDSP. Toyota's first response to the arbitration filing was "characteristic sounds ... do not substantially impair the vehicle". One week before the arbitration hearing they offered to buy the car back. Mine was officially repurchased because of the rattling shifter and fuel pump noise. There are other mechanical issues with it, which I won't mention. The car was lemon titled, sold at auction, and just went up for sale in another state. Hopefully a lucky fanboy buys it since there are obviously NO issues with the car.

So you lemon law'd one noisy FR-S and bought another another one?

[Hakuzen]

Originally Posted by vteclol

I bought a used car for now.
The car was fun to drive even though it had some cosmetic quirks, but once the mechanical issues started showing up I couldn't justify holding onto it. A fail car all around. Maybe in a few years once the customers have discovered all the issues with it..

Are you serious? Fail car all around? Because of the crickets?

It's been a bit of an adventure purchasing this car and owning it for the last 4 months, learning about it and figuring out whats normal and whats not... I could see some people being really bothered by the crickets, but to call it a "Fail Car All Around" is pompous and rather disingenuous. This is one of the funnest cars to drive on the planet sub-30k and has a hell of a lot going for it. Sure it has a loud and quirky fuel system, but you don't even notice it if you are actually driving. It is an "Idle Issue", and not even much of one unless you are super anal.

I just hope anybody who reads this guy's post takes it with a grain of salt. I haven't had this much fun driving since I got my license and my first car. (RWD '77 4spd BMW 320i)

[Blood]

Originally Posted by vteclol

I bought a used car for now.
The car was fun to drive even though it had some cosmetic quirks, but once the mechanical issues started showing up I couldn't justify holding onto it. A fail car all around. Maybe in a few years once the customers have discovered all the issues with it..

There are tens of thousands of these cars in circulation now. If there were serious issues with the lot of them, and not just minor annoyances, all our cars would be in the dealers' shops getting fixed. But, they aren't. Toyota is also making a good effort at fixing some of the minor annoyances that affect a large percentage of owners, such as the fuel pump chirping and window issues in cold climates. But clearly this car isn't for you.

A quote from another lemon law thread I posted in.. same applies here.

Originally Posted by Blood

If a minor annoyance like this is enough for you to want to get rid of the car, please do, because you clearly don't love the car enough. Buy something like a Prius instead, you'll be much happier that way.

[Hakuzen]

Originally Posted by vteclol

It's not about right or wrong, it's about money. You can send them all the concerned, angry letters you want and they will happily send you denials all day. Do you expect them to say "Oh our mistake, let us give you your money back"?
If you have a solid case and file with CDSP, Toyota is not going to pay someone, likely a lawyer, to go to an arbitration hearing that they are going lose. Just remember to make sure it qualifies so you don't waste any more of your time than you have to.

I compiled all my paperwork, wrote a brief summary about why the car met the criteria under the lemon law, and mailed it in to CDSP. Toyota's first response to the arbitration filing was "characteristic sounds ... do not substantially impair the vehicle". One week before the arbitration hearing they offered to buy the car back. Mine was officially repurchased because of the rattling shifter and fuel pump noise. There are other mechanical issues with it, which I won't mention. The car was lemon titled, sold at auction, and just went up for sale in another state. Hopefully a lucky fanboy buys it since there are obviously NO issues with the car.

Originally Posted by vteclol

The crickets wasn't the main issue for me. I consider the fuel pump crickets one of the "cosmetic quirks". The mechanical problems pushed it into the fail category.

Right. The mechanical issues that you "Will not mention". Got it.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by vteclol

Yes.

Well, what were they?! Some of us would like to know what to look for so that we don't end up in a fiery inferno of a wreck. Thanks.

[andrew20195]

As far as crickets go, Acura uses a very similar looking pump, also made by Denso, on their new DI V6 cars. They chirp. All of them. From what I understand, Acura has decided this condition is a normal characteristic of their vehicles, so for everyone complaining about crickets on a sub-$30k car, imagine if you had paid over $50k...

Interestingly enough, the Forester (and upcoming WRX) DIT engines use a completely different looking DI pump, and they don't have crickets.

[husker741]

Originally Posted by vteclol

It's not about right or wrong, it's about money. You can send them all the concerned, angry letters you want and they will happily send you denials all day. Do you expect them to say "Oh our mistake, let us give you your money back"?
If you have a solid case and file with CDSP, Toyota is not going to pay someone, likely a lawyer, to go to an arbitration hearing that they are going lose. Just remember to make sure it qualifies so you don't waste any more of your time than you have to.

I compiled all my paperwork, wrote a brief summary about why the car met the criteria under the lemon law, and mailed it in to CDSP. Toyota's first response to the arbitration filing was "characteristic sounds ... do not substantially impair the vehicle". One week before the arbitration hearing they offered to buy the car back. Mine was officially repurchased because of the rattling shifter and fuel pump noise. There are other mechanical issues with it, which I won't mention. The car was lemon titled, sold at auction, and just went up for sale in another state. Hopefully a lucky fanboy buys it since there are obviously NO issues with the car.