Contemplating FRS for track car

[GrantedTaken]

FRS will be faster than the M3 on the track.
R888 and you will be unbeatable

[kch]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Does the brake bias get pretty jacked up when you do the ATS brakes?

I'm no expert, but people smarter than me say yes.

Edit: the harness bar thing will be controversial. Personally, I run an Essex harness bar with some Schroth ASM harnesses for HPDE. I recognize that it's a major compromise from a safety standpoint, but it's helped me stay more secure in my seat. Previously, I was bracing myself with my right knee against the center console, which (1) hurt after a while, and (2) was bending things more than I was comfortable with. Some HPDE instructors are fine with the setup; others have just used the OEM belts (which remain functional for daily use)

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

oh wow, I didn't realize there was no engine oil cooler at all I just assumed it was undersized. Hm, well, that's interesting.

I'll do my first track day and then just add the cooler, temp gauge and some ATS brakes (maybe harness bar and harness too). Does the brake bias get pretty jacked up when you do the ATS brakes?

Yep, no oil cooler of any kind from the factory on this car. In fact it's the only Subaru that doesn't have one, AFAIK.


I'm not 100% sure about the ATS brakes, but I'd guess that this probably messes up the brake bias.


Regarding harnesses, if the intention is to keep you in the seat better you should look at getting a CG Lock. They're designed to work with the OEM 3-point seatbelt and wouldn't negatively impact crash safety from the perspective of how it may interact with airbags, etc. It's also a lot cheaper than a harness bar and harnesses, and the only good harness bar ever made for our platform isn't offered anymore.


If you want harnesses, go full send and strip that sucker out and have a roll cage fabbed. If that's not your intention, stick to wearing the factory seat belt and use a CG Lock.

[14stu]

Just get the AP Racing Sprint kit, the oil cooler of your choice, and if you want a harness you should probably just get a cage (G Speed has a bolt-in half cage that looks like it works well). For ECR, you might want to do brake ducting just for longevity (on street tires with the AP kit and good pads and fluids I don't get any brake fade but ducting would probably pay for itself in reduced wear rates).

Jackson racing has a 2 in one radiator and oil cooler that is pretty neat, if it weren't for autox rules I probably would have gone that route (I found a good deal on a used Mishimoto OC that's been working well for me).

I'll be at the SCCA Time Trials at ECR on 11/17&18 (if it ever stops raining so they can finish the track), I'm also going to be at MSR Cresson 10/20&21 with PCA and 10/27 with APEX if you want to meet up and talk twins and/or go for a ride I'm instructing at all those events.

-Sam

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

oh wow, I didn't realize there was no engine oil cooler at all I just assumed it was undersized. Hm, well, that's interesting.

I'll do my first track day and then just add the cooler, temp gauge and some ATS brakes (maybe harness bar and harness too). Does the brake bias get pretty jacked up when you do the ATS brakes?

Royally jacked up with the ATS brakes.

Stick to the known kits (AP, Brembo, Alcon). I recommend going for capacity in your case, based on our conversation.

Harness bar is big no no unless you have a half cage minimum, HANS, etc.

@Tristor the EJ WRX's didnt come with oil coolers either!

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@Tristor the EJ WRX's didnt come with oil coolers either!

Wow, that's a surprise. I wonder how much of the issues people had with EJs came down to that, since most of it was typically caused by oiling.

Originally Posted by 14stu

Jackson racing has a 2 in one radiator and oil cooler that is pretty neat, if it weren't for autox rules I probably would have gone that route (I found a good deal on a used Mishimoto OC that's been working well for me).

Heh, I didn't realize that was disallowed. I wonder if that should have bumped me into Modified the other day after all. Just one more thing that's incompatible between building a track car and a car for autocross.

[14stu]

Originally Posted by Tristor

Heh, I didn't realize that was disallowed. I wonder if that should have bumped me into Modified the other day after all. Just one more thing that's incompatible between building a track car and a car for autocross.

Radiators and oil coolers are allowed separately, but you can't have any parts that serve dual purposes (dumb rule). I think if a few people wrote letters they'd allow dual purpose for things that are allowed separately. Again, for local events most people agree to overlook the super technical rules like this that don't give anyone an advantage.

If I wasn't getting voluntold to the Solo Board next year, I considered dropping SCCA autox after a decade of participation (I'm going to end up doing 20+ track days this year and without autox scheduling conflicts and classing restrictions I'd be in the 30's).

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Royally jacked up with the ATS brakes.

Stick to the known kits (AP, Brembo, Alcon). I recommend going for capacity in your case, based on our conversation.

Harness bar is big no no unless you have a half cage minimum, HANS, etc.

@Tristor the EJ WRX's didnt come with oil coolers either!

I wonder why the ATS would jack it up but not other brands. They're all significantly higher capacity, power, etc. Do the others need a different MC or bias controller?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

I wonder why the ATS would jack it up but not other brands. They're all significantly higher capacity, power, etc.

Larger brake piston diameters on the ATS calipers compared to some of the other kits (since it's not designed for this car). It moves bias forward more than you'd like.

- Andrew

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Larger brake piston diameters on the ATS calipers compared to some of the other kits (since it's not designed for this car). It moves bias forward more than you'd like.

- Andrew

Don't aftermarket kits all have more pistons and bigger pistons though? Or is the ATS just way bigger?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Don't aftermarket kits all have more pistons and bigger pistons though? Or is the ATS just way bigger?

Some aftermarket kits account for that. Most do not, particularly the cheaper ones and the swaps.

A manual bias controller is not compatible with the stock VSC/ABS systems.

The ATS caliper mechnically increases torque with leverage, and then further increases torque with pistons that displace more fluid. Not only do you get more front bias, you get a longer pedal.

[bmxr]

Brake bias. In a nutshell, the pistons are not the correct size. This is one place where bigger is not better.


/geez, I guess I type as slow as I drive!/

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by justinco

I recently tested the OEM Forester sandwich cooler and it was no good, so don't get that lol.

For my information, can you explain a bit more why it was no good? Didn't you see any temperature difference at all?

[justinco]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

For my information, can you explain a bit more why it was no good? Didn't you see any temperature difference at all?

Under hard lapping it provided almost no difference in oil temperature.