P0016 on a 60k mile car

[kinghurl]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yeah. Just go in and flip the displayed parameters by clicking. They do.

DOH!
Thank you.

[Jamestl]

Does anyone know if OFT can log VVT? I tried logging and I can only get timing but not sure if that tells you about whether VVT is working or not. Anyone with more knowledge can chime in?

[TheStig85]

Hey guys, tore apart the valve cover and marked all the sprockets/chains/etc and as I loosened the tensioners, the chain skipped a few times. Now trying to get it back exactly where it was, kind of lost. I do have the timing chain guide from Toyota's service manual, but since things have shifted, I don't want to time everything according to the guide and then have a valve hit a piston, etc. Suggestions?

Oh I had the P0016 code and figured I'd just swap out sprockets on both banks. Lo and behold, the flap door at the end of each spring on both sides was loose and flopping around. Guess I made a good call.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by steve99

The "burned in values" or that ecu takes thousands of km to calibrate cams again seems totally bogus.

Check out the fixed offset between vvt exhaust hold learn values bank 1 and 2.

I'm not saying it can't be, or isn't reset. I just wonder what it means.

https://datazap.me/u/ultramaroon/log...g=0&data=21-22





Do you know if the same vvt params can be logged via tactrix?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Check out the fixed offset between vvt exhaust hold learn values bank 1 and 2.

I'm not saying it can't be, or isn't reset. I just wonder what it means.

https://datazap.me/u/ultramaroon/log...g=0&data=21-22





Do you know if the same vvt params can be logged via tactrix?

You can log VVT actual values with the Tactrix but I’ve not seen any addresses for logging the commanded values. So for this I have to run Techstream which is a big hassle. What are you logging with on your car?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Check out the fixed offset between vvt exhaust hold learn values bank 1 and 2.

I'm not saying it can't be, or isn't reset. I just wonder what it means.

https://datazap.me/u/ultramaroon/log...g=0&data=21-22





Do you know if the same vvt params can be logged via tactrix?

Yes you can log vvt parameters with tactrix but you would need to know the ram address and scaling for those parameters. Only have the basic vvt parameter addresses.

Its possible that offset is due to sensor tolerance between the sensors on each bank or the analogue to digital converters in the ecu as mpst of tjose sensors output say 0-5v and its converted in ecu to digital. I suspect and this is purely guessing its that sort of compensation that being sorted out when you reflash and then need to let the car idle for a minute for the ecu to sort out the sero positions on the can sensors, before it activates cams.

And what causes the dead throttle pedal feel till ecu sorts zero on that as well.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ermax

You can log VVT actual values with the Tactrix but I’ve not seen any addresses for logging the commanded values. So for this I have to run Techstream which is a big hassle. What are you logging with on your car?

Techstream is a hassle. I've used it to manually toggle the OCVs but haven't logged.

I have the OBDLink app with their toyota add-on, which is what I used for logging. s... l... o... w...

And I have the tactrix openport 2 thingy, which is why, when you first demonstrated your prowess sniffing the vsc shit, I immediately hoped you could help us with AVCS.

Originally Posted by steve99

Yes you can log vvt parameters with tactrix but you would need to know the ram address and scaling for those parameters. Only have the basic vvt parameter addresses.

My long-term dream is to be able to edit the stock ROM. I want to skip the off-the-shelf stuff because I'm not convinced they have it figured out completely. Is that a dumb way to think?

I see your point about a learned static offset.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Techstream is a hassle. I've used it to manually toggle the OCVs but haven't logged.

I have the OBDLink app with their toyota add-on, which is what I used for logging. s... l... o... w...

And I have the tactrix openport 2 thingy, which is why, when you first demonstrated your prowess sniffing the vsc shit, I immediately hoped you could help us with AVCS.


My long-term dream is to be able to edit the stock ROM. I want to skip the off-the-shelf stuff because I'm not convinced they have it figured out completely. Is that a dumb way to think?

I see your point about a learned static offset.

Pretty well all tunes do same things NA

Lean fueling to arround 12
Optimise ignition timing
Optimise cam timing
Adjist pi\di ratios

Rest of chanfes sre for drivability or jist minpr tweaks

Some tuners run richer with nore timing , some run leaner with less. Most end up arround same point power wise.

When you get a bunck of cars on same dyno on same day

Optimising cam timing throughout the rpm range is the hardest and most time-consuming part.

The oft tunes are pretty good out of the box, jist tweak your maf scaling and your pretty good

[SLVRSRFR]

So after having P0018 repaired by Subaru last August, the CEL came on a couple of times without incident. Just a CEL with no slip light, and it would always disappear again the next day all on it's own. It only did this twice from the time of having the repair completed in August, and putting my car into storage in early December.

Well, I drove my car for the past 3 days, and the goddamn light came on once each day that I was driving it. Each and every time, the slip light will flash quickly as the CEL comes on, and will then disappear, but the CEL stays on. Then, while driving, the slip light will sometimes flash quickly (while driving in a straight line on a dry road, so nothing to do with the actual traction), and then turn off again, but the CEL still remains on. The first 2 times it did this before I put the car into storage, the light turned itself off after a few hours and would not come back. It was WEEKS if not MONTHS in between instances. I thought nothing of it at the time because everything felt normal, and the light would take care of itself and would not reappear. Now it is only HOURS between the instances, and even though everything still feels normal, now I am officially concerned. The light turned off all on it's own on Thursday, and then came on again not 3 hours later.

The car does NOT go into limp mode; I still have all my power, unlike when the P0018 code was active, and everything sounds and feels normal.

I did not drive my car today out of fear of this new issue, but I wager to bet if I DID drive it, the light would probably turn itself off again eventually, just like it did before, but my concern is that now the intervals between the lights are way way shorter than they were before.

I haven't had a chance to get it scanned while the light was on to try to pull a code, and now there's a bit of snow in the forecast over the next week or so, so I will probably be putting her back in the garage. I don't have a scan cable or an OFT so I'll have to try to see if I know anyone who has one, as I'd really like to try to scan it while the light is still on and try to figure out WTF is going on. Otherwise I won't be able to get it scanned until I start driving it again, as I work at a dealership that has a scanner.

I'm going to reach out to my local Subaru dealer (that performed the P0018 repair for me) on Monday as well to explain the situation and see what their advice is, and I'm not scared of bringing Subaru Canada into the fold again if necessary, because if this new fault is even partially caused by the repair they performed on my vehicle in August for P0018, I feel like I should not have to pay for anything to get this remedied.

Anyone else have anything like this happen after having this repair performed?

Thanks. Happy Easter, everybody!

[TheStig85]

I don't know but I'm in the phase of replacing all the sprockets. Found the top two intake ones had that door fell off. Haven't checked the bottom two but I might as well replace it all while it's off. I'm hoping it fixes all my issues. This is more of a headache and money pit than anything else.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

And I have the tactrix openport 2 thingy, which is why, when you first demonstrated your prowess sniffing the vsc shit, I immediately hoped you could help us with AVCS.

I have a newborn so my time has been super limited. I want to find some time this weekend to pick back up on this project. I’d really love to have a logging system that will automatically push the logs to a server when ever I pull into driveway and it picks up the WiFi. And also be able to pull logs wirelessly with a laptop without needing cables all over the place. I just need to find the time to sniff all the packets coming from Techstream which is fairly time consuming.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

Hey guys, tore apart the valve cover and marked all the sprockets/chains/etc and as I loosened the tensioners, the chain skipped a few times. Now trying to get it back exactly where it was, kind of lost. I do have the timing chain guide from Toyota's service manual, but since things have shifted, I don't want to time everything according to the guide and then have a valve hit a piston, etc. Suggestions?

Oh I had the P0016 code and figured I'd just swap out sprockets on both banks. Lo and behold, the flap door at the end of each spring on both sides was loose and flopping around. Guess I made a good call.

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I don't know but I'm in the phase of replacing all the sprockets. Found the top two intake ones had that door fell off. Haven't checked the bottom two but I might as well replace it all while it's off. I'm hoping it fixes all my issues. This is more of a headache and money pit than anything else.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I think I'm the only person in this thread who has done the replacement them self, so I suppose I'm the best person to ask. I'll go ahead and say I've been checking this thread less since my problem seems fixed, so feel free to pm me if I don't respond.

The exhaust (bottom) sprockets dont have those flaps, so no need to check/replace them. I only replaced both intake (top) sprockets.

2nd, I assume you are looking at the engine tech manual? (http://www.ft86club.com/files/BRZengine.pdf) It goes over the process in pretty good detail. I spent a significant amount of time going over it to ensure I understood the process, because as you mention, you don't want to mess this up. Once you get the passenger's bank in place and chain off you can safely rotate the crank. I rotated to the indicated position to remove the driver's sprockets, and didn't touch the crank until I had the driver's chain back on. The colored plates on the chain are super useful to ensure the timing is in the right spot putting the chain back on. The crank is tough to spin at certain points when you don't have the passenger's timing chain on, the valves are all closed so the pressure isn't released. I just went slow so pressure could drop on it's own.

Be incredibly careful to not leave any rtv pieces in the engine or timing cover. There have been reports of blown engines from those little bits making their way into an oil channel.

[SLVRSRFR]

Follow up to my previous post; I drove the car to my family gathering yesterday, as the weather was nice. About an hour and a half each way.

Check engine light has been on for 2 days now without disappearing, which is the longest it has stayed on continuously thus far since the P0018 repair was performed.

On the way back last night, the TCS "slip" light would randomly flash here and there, but it also started coming on and staying on for a few seconds at a time, which it hasn't done before. It was only doing this while driving at highway speeds; on regular roads, the slip light would not flash at all.

It was dark, so I would notice it when it illuminated. If I stepped into the throttle a bit, it would then turn off. Before, the slip light would only flash momentarily and then would turn off, but there were 6 or 7 times on this drive last night where it came on and stayed illuminated for a few seconds at a time before turning off again.

I drove the car to work today SPECIFICALLY to try to get the code scanned, as the light didn't seem like it was going to turn off on it's own this time. I made one stop on the way to work to get gas, and imagine my bafflement and frustration upon starting my car again only to find out that the DAMN light (CEL) has turned itself off again.

I'm starting to think my car is playing tricks on me.

I imagine the light will probably come on again on the way home tonight, but time will tell. She's going back in the garage again tonight as there's some light flurries in the forecast for the next few days.

Argh.

[kinghurl]

Originally Posted by SLVRSRFR

So after having P0018 repaired by Subaru last August, the CEL came on a couple of times without incident. Just a CEL with no slip light, and it would always disappear again the next day all on it's own. It only did this twice from the time of having the repair completed in August, and putting my car into storage in early December.

Well, I drove my car for the past 3 days, and the goddamn light came on once each day that I was driving it. Each and every time, the slip light will flash quickly as the CEL comes on, and will then disappear, but the CEL stays on. Then, while driving, the slip light will sometimes flash quickly (while driving in a straight line on a dry road, so nothing to do with the actual traction), and then turn off again, but the CEL still remains on. The first 2 times it did this before I put the car into storage, the light turned itself off after a few hours and would not come back. It was WEEKS if not MONTHS in between instances. I thought nothing of it at the time because everything felt normal, and the light would take care of itself and would not reappear. Now it is only HOURS between the instances, and even though everything still feels normal, now I am officially concerned. The light turned off all on it's own on Thursday, and then came on again not 3 hours later.

The car does NOT go into limp mode; I still have all my power, unlike when the P0018 code was active, and everything sounds and feels normal.

I did not drive my car today out of fear of this new issue, but I wager to bet if I DID drive it, the light would probably turn itself off again eventually, just like it did before, but my concern is that now the intervals between the lights are way way shorter than they were before.

I haven't had a chance to get it scanned while the light was on to try to pull a code, and now there's a bit of snow in the forecast over the next week or so, so I will probably be putting her back in the garage. I don't have a scan cable or an OFT so I'll have to try to see if I know anyone who has one, as I'd really like to try to scan it while the light is still on and try to figure out WTF is going on. Otherwise I won't be able to get it scanned until I start driving it again, as I work at a dealership that has a scanner.

I'm going to reach out to my local Subaru dealer (that performed the P0018 repair for me) on Monday as well to explain the situation and see what their advice is, and I'm not scared of bringing Subaru Canada into the fold again if necessary, because if this new fault is even partially caused by the repair they performed on my vehicle in August for P0018, I feel like I should not have to pay for anything to get this remedied.

Anyone else have anything like this happen after having this repair performed?

Thanks. Happy Easter, everybody!

So having been a recent REPEAT offender wrt this code-first event in early 2016 had OCV and ECU replaced(updated ECU)-with good resolution. Car worked well after that with no issues until 2017 late Dec. This time (same P0018 code) it was determined that the OCVs were both fine, but the CAM gear seemed to be the issue. So BOTH intake and exhaust CAM gears were replaced(LHS). This time around had the CAM gears changed and was told again that the ECU needed to be replaced(AGAIN!!! WTF RIGHT?!!!). So I pushed back for an explanation as to why a 2nd ECU needed when I allegedly have the "Updated" version which resolved "known" ECU issues with earlier version. I got a response, through my very patient Master Tech, Tom Armstrong of Armstrong racing, via Subaru Tech line, that I didn't_HAVE_to replace the ECU again, but that it would "eventually" relearn the new VVT learn values, but could take about 5K miles to do. I went this route and for the last couple weeks was "happily" resetting the code each time it popped up(every 2nd ignition cycle) and continued to autocross the car. I then noticed a fall off in my performance(I_thought it was me) over the 3 event since the CAM gear change vs prior and after seeing a similar post from Icecreamtruk(see post #201 in this thread) about the fall off in performance it makes sense. So I just (this weekend), changed the ECU as well and saw an immediate change in the VVT learning values for the intake VVT(there was previously a 20 degree spread with no change after 3 weeks, now the spread is 4 degrees and I could see it change as the first 2 drive cycles went on). Car "feels" better below 3K as well, but take this butt dyno "feeling" with a grain of salt.
Long way to say yes-you can see this code again after having it repaired earlier if it was for either of the CAM sensors, OCV, or CAM Gears+ECU repairs. If you follow the repair procedures, it calls for a CAM sensor check, swap of OCVs, check of VVT learn values, CAM gears, learn values and finally ECU and recheck. So it could be all, or any one of these items causing the failure. We also had a small survey(too small to be conclusive) of what oil we were running at the time of the failure. I think most we running thicker than the recommended 20W oil. I was running 10W30 and have since returned to 20W as the small passages in the various oil control paths for this car may not allow the heavier weight oils to properly actuate either OCV and as a result CAM gear timing. I now understand way more about this car than I really wanted to-can I just drive please-they say knowledge is power-all this power just makes me want to take a nap! Hopefully the saga can help others. Will post more on how the car is working over the next few weeks as I gather more data.