P0016 on a 60k mile car

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I bought the passenger's intake sprocket for like $90 off ebay NIB but the passenger I paid $175 for or so. ECU I bought used on ebay for $130. O-rings/oil seal I have listed on an earlier post. If you are doing P0018 you might consider getting the o-ring behind the belt tensioner which I didn't list, I didn't realize it was there until assembly and decided to yolo it and use the old one. I just used black RTV for the timing cover, same stuff I used on the oil pan for over 30k miles with no issues.

I saw your original post with the O-rings needed, but reading those diagrams, I'm unsure which O-ring is behind the belt tensioner.

Also, is the RTV silicon really needed? I talked to some mechanic friends and they said it isn't necessary in newer cars due to the gaskets they use.

Finally, should I just order the driver side intake sprocket, since I'm already replacing the Passenger side one for CEL P0016?
Is the driver side Intake sprocket Part No. 13322AA031 ?
And Passenger side intake sprocket is 13322AA021

Thanks!

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I saw your original post with the O-rings needed, but reading those diagrams, I'm unsure which O-ring is behind the belt tensioner.

Also, is the RTV silicon really needed? I talked to some mechanic friends and they said it isn't necessary in newer cars due to the gaskets they use.

Finally, should I just order the driver side intake sprocket, since I'm already replacing the Passenger side one for CEL P0016?
Is the driver side Intake sprocket Part No. 13322AA031 ?
And Passenger side intake sprocket is 13322AA021

Thanks!

I think it's this one, not completely sure though. I updated my previous post with parts.
https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_20...806916080.html

There is no real gasket there. RTV is the only gasket. It comes this way from the factory.

I went ahead and did both. An extra $180 for the other was worth it, but that's up to you.

Part numbers look right but I highly recommend finding your way around the parts.subaru web site. Incredibly useful, has diagrams and will confirm parts for you.

[rusty959]

Update on my car, got the new ECU in. No issues following the instructions save the first start was incredibly rough, but that's to be expected when putting an ECU that had learned a different vehicle on.

Driven around 30 miles in 5 different trips and no CEL. Hope it stays that way.

[kinghurl]

Thought I'd contribute to this thread based on my current(ongoing) experience. Had this code 1 year ago and had the dealership change the OCV, then ECU and the issue went away for a year or so only to return. This time, had a mechanic friend at a dealership give me the skinny. I did the sensor swap check, he did the OCV swap check and issue stayed on the LHS, pointing to the sprockets. He took them apart and the little spring cover popped out as he was taking it apart, confirming in his mind that indeed the sprocket had failed. So FF to the sprocket change after which code came back within the 2nd drive cycle(code could be detected in the Pending list after the 1st drive cycle). He then indicated that the ECU needed to be changed, to which I challenged the notion. (That's what the repair manuals say to do.) I asked him to ask the Subaru Tech line about this(especially given ECU was just changed). They indicated that it_is_possible to not change the ECU and all will be ok, it just can take a couple thousand miles to register the new Cam values. That is the path I've taken-so I will report in a few(hopefully small few) thousand miles that all is well. For now I simply reset the code after the 1st drive cycle(pending code showing) . There is no longer a mechanical issue with the new (updated) sprockets, but the old values in the ECU are at odds with the faster responding new sprockets....ECU needs more time(allegedly) to realize that this is the new normal. My car is a 2013 BRZ. ECU already updated in 2016...I'm learning way more about this car than I planned. Car has had 3K mile oil changes-this is a flaw in the sprocket design, combined with an ECU that has an Elephant-like memory.

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by kinghurl

Thought I'd contribute to this thread based on my current(ongoing) experience. Had this code 1 year ago and had the dealership change the OCV, then ECU and the issue went away for a year or so only to return. This time, had a mechanic friend at a dealership give me the skinny. I did the sensor swap check, he did the OCV swap check and issue stayed on the LHS, pointing to the sprockets. He took them apart and the little spring cover popped out as he was taking it apart, confirming in his mind that indeed the sprocket had failed. So FF to the sprocket change after which code came back within the 2nd drive cycle(code could be detected in the Pending list after the 1st drive cycle). He then indicated that the ECU needed to be changed, to which I challenged the notion. (That's what the repair manuals say to do.) I asked him to ask the Subaru Tech line about this(especially given ECU was just changed). They indicated that it_is_possible to not change the ECU and all will be ok, it just can take a couple thousand miles to register the new Cam values. That is the path I've taken-so I will report in a few(hopefully small few) thousand miles that all is well. For now I simply reset the code after the 1st drive cycle(pending code showing) . There is no longer a mechanical issue with the new (updated) sprockets, but the old values in the ECU are at odds with the faster responding new sprockets....ECU needs more time(allegedly) to realize that this is the new normal. My car is a 2013 BRZ. ECU already updated in 2016...I'm learning way more about this car than I planned. Car has had 3K mile oil changes-this is a flaw in the sprocket design, combined with an ECU that has an Elephant-like memory.

I'm very interested in this ECU needing time to realize new values. Anyone can truly confirm this?

[Icecreamtruk]

The whole "need to change ECU, values are burned into it" is just wad. What probably really happens is that they have to way to delete or reset those values thru their software and thus, its easier to just throw parts at it. I had the P0016 and my mechanic was able to reset ECU after correcting the problem correctly, he did it thru Ecutek software tho, not Techstream or whatever subaru uses.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

The whole "need to change ECU, values are burned into it" is just wad. What probably really happens is that they have to way to delete or reset those values thru their software and thus, its easier to just throw parts at it. I had the P0016 and my mechanic was able to reset ECU after correcting the problem correctly, he did it thru Ecutek software tho, not Techstream or whatever subaru uses.

I reflashed my car through Ecutek and still had the code come back. There may be a deeper way through Ecutek but just throwing my experience out there.

Originally Posted by kinghurl

Thought I'd contribute to this thread based on my current(ongoing) experience. Had this code 1 year ago and had the dealership change the OCV, then ECU and the issue went away for a year or so only to return. This time, had a mechanic friend at a dealership give me the skinny. I did the sensor swap check, he did the OCV swap check and issue stayed on the LHS, pointing to the sprockets. He took them apart and the little spring cover popped out as he was taking it apart, confirming in his mind that indeed the sprocket had failed. So FF to the sprocket change after which code came back within the 2nd drive cycle(code could be detected in the Pending list after the 1st drive cycle). He then indicated that the ECU needed to be changed, to which I challenged the notion. (That's what the repair manuals say to do.) I asked him to ask the Subaru Tech line about this(especially given ECU was just changed). They indicated that it_is_possible to not change the ECU and all will be ok, it just can take a couple thousand miles to register the new Cam values. That is the path I've taken-so I will report in a few(hopefully small few) thousand miles that all is well. For now I simply reset the code after the 1st drive cycle(pending code showing) . There is no longer a mechanical issue with the new (updated) sprockets, but the old values in the ECU are at odds with the faster responding new sprockets....ECU needs more time(allegedly) to realize that this is the new normal. My car is a 2013 BRZ. ECU already updated in 2016...I'm learning way more about this car than I planned. Car has had 3K mile oil changes-this is a flaw in the sprocket design, combined with an ECU that has an Elephant-like memory.

Any chance you ran something thicker than 0W20 in the car? I was running 5W30. Just wondering if that's made a difference since you had confirmed broken sprockets as well.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I reflashed my car through Ecutek and still had the code come back. There may be a deeper way through Ecutek but just throwing my experience out there.

Yeah no, im not talking abour reflashing, but actually modifying values in the ECU thru the ecutek software (not flashing, flashing is just writing the AFR tables and what not, this is not that)

[steve99]

Originally Posted by TheStig85

I'm very interested in this ECU needing time to realize new values. Anyone can truly confirm this?

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

The whole "need to change ECU, values are burned into it" is just wad. What probably really happens is that they have to way to delete or reset those values thru their software and thus, its easier to just throw parts at it. I had the P0016 and my mechanic was able to reset ECU after correcting the problem correctly, he did it thru Ecutek software tho, not Techstream or whatever subaru uses.

Originally Posted by rusty959

I reflashed my car through Ecutek and still had the code come back. There may be a deeper way through Ecutek but just throwing my experience out there.



Any chance you ran something thicker than 0W20 in the car? I was running 5W30. Just wondering if that's made a difference since you had confirmed broken sprockets as well.

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Yeah no, im not talking abour reflashing, but actually modifying values in the ECU thru the ecutek software (not flashing, flashing is just writing the AFR tables and what not, this is not that)

ok

AFAIK their are three main mamoty areas in the main processor in the ecu its a renasis SH72531. Their is the RAM area this is working memory for shortvterm data including learned data, fault codes, counters timers and the ecu workingmemory. All this data ia lost if power to the ecu is remced for a shotr period.

Then their the flash memory area. Theors two secions the boot area that not changed when you flash tunes. 0000-7FFFF. This provides just basic operation and ability for ecu to talk to can buss and the obd port if the main flash area failes or is erased or corrupted , in most cases. Then their the tune area of flash memory 8000-13FFFF. This is where the tune is held, anad is the area reflashed by oft tactrix ecutek or whatever.

If your ecu needs replacing it will be because ghe main processor has failed or got into a lockout and unrecoveravle state. You will know this as you car will not start and the ecu wont talk to the obd port.

Or one or more of the periferal interfaces that send or recieve info from the various sensors like cam position or oil control valves or the many other sensors or acutators has failed or is not working correctly.

This last case is why subaru or toyota would be replacing the ecu, ie the ecu is not sending or receiving or signals to cam sensors or actuators.

The "burned in values" or that ecu takes thousands of km to calibrate cams again seems totally bogus.

Each timecto reflash or resetvecu all the learned parameters are lost, when you first start car the ecu starts with default values and then calibrateds and learn coreections for various sensors and functions.

You doo need to let car idle for avout a minute after reflash or reset to learn cam zero positions. But its not burned in . The ecu constantly learns corrections , and if you reset or reflash it it just stsrts again from default

[kinghurl]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I reflashed my car through Ecutek and still had the code come back. There may be a deeper way through Ecutek but just throwing my experience out there.



Any chance you ran something thicker than 0W20 in the car? I was running 5W30. Just wondering if that's made a difference since you had confirmed broken sprockets as well.

I was running 10w30 oil in my car at the time. Have since switched to Royal Purple 5W20. Some of the orifices in the car, I've learned are so small at the thicker oil could pose an issue esp when cold.

[kinghurl]

Originally Posted by steve99

ok

AFAIK their are three main mamoty areas in the main processor in the ecu its a renasis SH72531. Their is the RAM area this is working memory for shortvterm data including learned data, fault codes, counters timers and the ecu workingmemory. All this data ia lost if power to the ecu is remced for a shotr period.

Then their the flash memory area. Theors two secions the boot area that not changed when you flash tunes. 0000-7FFFF. This provides just basic operation and ability for ecu to talk to can buss and the obd port if the main flash area failes or is erased or corrupted , in most cases. Then their the tune area of flash memory 8000-13FFFF. This is where the tune is held, anad is the area reflashed by oft tactrix ecutek or whatever.

If your ecu needs replacing it will be because ghe main processor has failed or got into a lockout and unrecoveravle state. You will know this as you car will not start and the ecu wont talk to the obd port.

Or one or more of the periferal interfaces that send or recieve info from the various sensors like cam position or oil control valves or the many other sensors or acutators has failed or is not working correctly.

This last case is why subaru or toyota would be replacing the ecu, ie the ecu is not sending or receiving or signals to cam sensors or actuators.

The "burned in values" or that ecu takes thousands of km to calibrate cams again seems totally bogus.

Each timecto reflash or resetvecu all the learned parameters are lost, when you first start car the ecu starts with default values and then calibrateds and learn coreections for various sensors and functions.

You doo need to let car idle for avout a minute after reflash or reset to learn cam zero positions. But its not burned in . The ecu constantly learns corrections , and if you reset or reflash it it just stsrts again from default

Thank you Steve. You explanation sounds very reasonable. I also found it strange that I'd need to change the ECM AGAIN after it was done for this last year. The dealer-explanations given were just not believable(to me) which is why I chose to follow the "if you wait long enough..." approach offered by Subaru Tech Line folks, who indicated that even though mechanical issue is fixed, ECM may take a while to "believe" it.

[Ultramaroon]

If anyone has one of these OBDLink doohickeys, their software can now monitor vvt data real time.




I put together this dashboard with all the parameters that I figured were significant. A couple, like the target and actual angles, are intuitive but I don't know what the others mean. There are a couple times in this clip where the actual value seems to lead the target. I think that's aliasing due to the low sample rate. ...I think.

[rusty959]

Originally Posted by kinghurl

I was running 10w30 oil in my car at the time. Have since switched to Royal Purple 5W20. Some of the orifices in the car, I've learned are so small at the thicker oil could pose an issue esp when cold.

I'm wondering if thicker oil could help push these plates out of position, I was running thicker oil as well, 5W30 redline.

I'd love to hear from other confirmed cases of broken sprocket what oil was being ran.

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I'm wondering if thicker oil could help push these plates out of position, I was running thicker oil as well, 5W30 redline.

I'd love to hear from other confirmed cases of broken sprocket what oil was being ran.

I've been running a 0w30. Living in a warm climate though, Miami, FL.