follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > FT86CLUB Shared Forum > FR-S / BRZ vs....

FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-25-2012, 07:02 PM   #29
Carlovescars
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 2011 Scion tC
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The FR-S and BRZ have the same specs. This car is not about numbers, but the passion/feel of the car for drift and turns. If you want to compare numbers and speed, get a turbo or supercharge.
Carlovescars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #30
AVOturboworld
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: 2013 "AVO Orange" FR-S
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 69
Thanked 2,277 Times in 636 Posts
Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
If you bought two WRX turbo models from the dealer today, and drove them back to back with surgical, robotic precision, you'd probably find that one was .2 tenths of a second faster than the other. That can be blamed on production tolerances, one being built on a Friday, the phase of the moon, the guy driving getting a slightly better launch, or whatever else you want to blame it on. That's just what it is.

The FRS and the BRZ are the same car with a different nose, and slightly different suspension tuning. So neither is going to be faster than the other in a straight line, other than the possibility that one launches better than the other due to the suspension tuning. A rolling start of 5-60 would most likely be identical besides the weight of the driver.

I can say from experience that, on any given day, the BRZ can beat the FRS around the track, or the FRS can beat the BRZ around the track, or they have a dead tie. Depending on drivers, the BRZ could beat the FRS around the track by an easy 6 seconds. I know this because my first experience with Tsukuba Circuit, I beat an experienced motor journalist around the track with a 1.18 time vs. his 1.24 time *in the same mx5*.

If anybody here really is going to buy the FRS because they think it's "faster" than the BRZ, then they'll end up disappointed. If they buy it because they like Toyota dealers better, or they like the nose better, or they like the price better, or the options available better, they won't be disappointed at all.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub
AVOturboworld is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AVOturboworld For This Useful Post:
dsgerbc (04-25-2012), nibor33 (04-26-2012), prophecy0 (04-26-2012), Spaceywilly (04-25-2012)
Old 04-25-2012, 07:35 PM   #31
ayau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Some rust bucket
Location: Polar ice cap
Posts: 3,058
Thanks: 312
Thanked 1,045 Times in 556 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
unless toyota is hiding something from the public, these cars are 99% identical.
ayau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 07:39 PM   #32
dsgerbc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: BRZ(sold), STI
Location: A2, MI
Posts: 1,915
Thanks: 176
Thanked 419 Times in 241 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepGuessing View Post
HID's give off so much light it actually slows the car down..

There's your solution..
problem solved
This suggests tuning: install HIDs for tail lights
dsgerbc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dsgerbc For This Useful Post:
nibor33 (04-26-2012)
Old 04-25-2012, 07:41 PM   #33
KeepGuessing
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: e30 150 deville etc etc
Location: Arizona
Posts: 79
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Maybe add a throttle position switch so at WOT you get a HID boost..along with AIDS
KeepGuessing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 07:42 PM   #34
quik1987
Senior Member
 
quik1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Drives: Bugatti Veyron
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,338
Thanks: 141
Thanked 569 Times in 256 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Ass warmers
Leather
Auto Climate Control
World Rally Blue
Maybe you like STi more than TRD
quik1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:18 PM   #35
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,057 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus29 View Post
Just to compile what I found in those reviews so far, comparing the FRS to BRZ:


Motor Authority:
"But turn it all off, and the FR-S reveals its true ability--a level of ability that may even surpass its Subaru twin.

The FR-S isn't identical to the BRZ. It has stiffer rear springs and rear bushings. That makes it a bit more willing to rotate, both on power and off, and yields a balance that feels both natural and easily controlled. It's a conscious decision taken by the Scion crew to make their version just a bit more fun, a bit better-suited to those with as much taste for a well-carved apex and corner-entry tossability as for outright speed. And that, in a nutshell, is the Scion FR-S."

Motor Trend:
"During our testing, we recorded a 25.9-second figure-eight run at a 0.67 g average -- a full second quicker than the Fiat 500 Abarth we recently tested, a half-second quicker than the Honda Civic Si coupe, and even three-tenths of a second quicker than the Subaru BRZ."

Automobile Mag:
"As a result, the cars were essentially neck-and-neck in acceleration runs, with the Scion’s 6.2-second run to 60 mph edging out the Subaru’s 6.4-second 0-60 sprint....

The Scion FR-S, on the other hand, is more playful -- and has a temper. Think of an RX-8 with some MX-5 Miata thrown into the mix. Stiffer rear springs and bushings help make the Scion more neutral at the limit. A tiny amount of initial understeer can be nixed by your right foot with no hesitation. Lift slightly in a corner and the FR-S’s rear tires come unstuck. Get on the throttle too hard, and without delay the rear end begins to rotate. Its actions are quick, so your reactions on the steering wheel need to be fast, too -- but there’s more than enough steering feel coming through the electrically assisted rack that you’ll feel the back end coming around right away.
A beginner driver might have an easier time controlling the Subaru at the limit -- more experienced drivers might prefer the Scion. As the near-identical performance numbers show, neither has a clear performance advantage -- it’s all about the feel. The Scion offers the best balance of any sports car within three times its price. Well, except the Subaru, which trails right behind."


Inside Line:
"Sixty miles per hour is reached in 6.6 seconds (6.3 seconds with one foot of rollout like on a drag strip), and the quarter-mile in 14.8 seconds at 93.8 mph. Yes, this result is notably quicker and faster than the BRZ, which did those deeds in 7.3, 7.0, and 15.3 seconds at 92.1, respectively. What's going on? The data reveals that the BRZ actually accelerated quicker initially, but at 19 mph the Subaru laid over a bit and the Scion powered ahead and never looked back. The explanation is equal parts launch technique and gearchange speed. The Scion's tire-spinning launch allowed it power through the 4000-rpm torque hole we observed in our dyno testing where the Subaru bogged down briefly. Plus, our BRZ tester was plagued with a finicky 1-2 gearchange which ate up precious time en route to 60 mph."


Seems to be some truth underlying all this.
Yes, but these jouranlist all talk to each other on the same venue and discuss things to each other... I would imagine they would have different thoughts if they were prohibited from talking amongst themselves.... :P
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 01:00 PM   #36
SkullWorks
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: SSM LT MT BRZ
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,033
Thanks: 803
Thanked 754 Times in 328 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Really Mods?

Erasing my Posts already?

Like I said If at this point in the cycle you believe the FRs is faster than a BRZ don't buy a BRz you do not have the intellectual capacity to maintain a car of this limited production status and do not posses the critical thinking abilities to secure the vehicle a long and prosperous life...

and you might be stupid...
SkullWorks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 03:16 PM   #37
Phaedrus29
Senior Member
 
Phaedrus29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ
Location: PA
Posts: 683
Thanks: 106
Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullWorks View Post
Really Mods?

Erasing my Posts already?

Like I said If at this point in the cycle you believe the FRs is faster than a BRZ don't buy a BRz you do not have the intellectual capacity to maintain a car of this limited production status and do not posses the critical thinking abilities to secure the vehicle a long and prosperous life...

and you might be stupid...

Perhaps the mods should delete your most recent post too. How is it a mark of a lack of intellectual capacity or stupidness to buy the FRS over the BRZ IF (emphasis on IF) it's true that the FRS is faster than the BRZ? The cars are roughly identical, but if the FRS is faster AND cheaper, wouldn't it seem sensible (or at least certainly not stupid) to go FRS?

In any event, blindly buying the BRZ for more money IF all reviews (and your test-drive) tells you that the FRS is better/faster, would seem to be a sign of a lack of intellectual capacity, if anything would. If you are a critical thinker, shouldn't you compare price and performance when deciding to purchase?

------

Thanks for all the helpful posts above, btw. I certainly feel that it would be unwise to read too much into these reviews. (That being said, they probably shouldn't be ignored completely either.)
Phaedrus29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 03:51 PM   #38
wu_dot_com
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: accord
Location: ca
Posts: 454
Thanks: 297
Thanked 178 Times in 86 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
OP, like many on this forum people seem to forget that BRZ is slghtly heavyer than the FRS due to the standard equipments.

with such low margen as shown in the magazine tests of .2 seconds. the difference can all be in the margin of error, or the slight weight increase in the BRZ is taking its slight effect on the results.

if you were to remove some of the extra equipments, I bet the time would be the same between the two cares
wu_dot_com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 04:04 PM   #39
MmmHamSandwich
You know you want it.
 
MmmHamSandwich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S
Location: RVA
Posts: 705
Thanks: 160
Thanked 327 Times in 154 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_dot_com View Post
OP, like many on this forum people seem to forget that BRZ is slghtly heavyer than the FRS due to the standard equipments.

with such low margen as shown in the magazine tests of .2 seconds. the difference can all be in the margin of error, or the slight weight increase in the BRZ is taking its slight effect on the results.

if you were to remove some of the extra equipments, I bet the time would be the same between the two cares
I am not trying to pick on you because you are technically right, that the BRZ is slightly heavier. However while we are on that subject, for a long time now there seems to be this general belief that the FR-S is significantly lighter than the BRZ. I know that is not what you are stating, but it seems a lot of people are justifying the weight difference in favor the of the FR-S.

Personally this always mystified me considering they are going to be built identically for the USDM market, and the only real difference is the fact the BRZ has a navigation head unit and maybe the weight of a couple extra ballasts for the HID system. How people thought this would be a big difference is beyond me.

To those who don't know, the curb weights for both production versions of the vehicles have been posted. What's the difference? Just how much more does the BRZ weigh compared to the FR-S? 4 pounds. The BRZ weighs 4 pounds more than the FR-S. When the difference between the two cars is less than packing your lunch, it's time to stop professing what a great performance benefit the weight savings is giving you.
MmmHamSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 04:11 PM   #40
SkullWorks
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: SSM LT MT BRZ
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,033
Thanks: 803
Thanked 754 Times in 328 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
that's like saying a 240sx XE is faster than an LE

if there is any discrepancy in the cars it (as was pointed out by Jason Kavanagh of insideline) comes down to driver, car's history, and conditions. there is an ever so slight difference in the weight of the vehicles and it uses slightly different dampers/springs/bushings whatever....

so back to where we were, if you honestly think 2 cars with identical chassis (front fascia aside) identical powertrains, the same drive ratio, tire size, ecu calibration, intake and exhaust track, are going to perform so vastly different that one is the clear cut "faster car" and you are never going to, change tires, or shocks or springs or bushings or put items in the trunk or carry fat chicks or eat before driving, or drive with clothes on.....


the differences are within margin of error, (as stated but i know you can't read)

it has been known for months that the FR-s intentionally chose rates and damping for the rear to make the car more prone to oversteer. so yeah that'll feel faster, and on some courses especially with limited seat time the car that rotates more readily will be faster...

so since you missed it the critical thinking part is where you draw real conclusions from statements and facts rather than just believing what some kid that probably can't drive is whining about on the interwebs...

Not to mention if you are buying this car to go fast you are probably buying the wrong car (whichever you buy)
SkullWorks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 04:43 PM   #41
Turbowned
Senior Member
 
Turbowned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: 2017 Subaru BRZ Perf Pack 6MT
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,048
Thanks: 1,949
Thanked 1,945 Times in 1,150 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I'm buying the BRZ and it will be faster, because I'm driving it against you


We ought to organize a little friendly competition between FR-S and BRZ owners after 6 months or so of ownership. Group people in two or three different classes and see who comes out on top - could be fun!!
__________________

Current: 2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S 6MT
Previous: 2 BRZ's, 997 C2S, C5 RS6, C4 S6, B8 S4, GDB STi, S30 240Z, FC3S RX-7 TII, AW11/SW20 MR2, E30 318is/325i, etc.
Turbowned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #42
wu_dot_com
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: accord
Location: ca
Posts: 454
Thanks: 297
Thanked 178 Times in 86 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich View Post
I am not trying to pick on you because you are technically right, that the BRZ is slightly heavier. However while we are on that subject, for a long time now there seems to be this general belief that the FR-S is significantly lighter than the BRZ. I know that is not what you are stating, but it seems a lot of people are justifying the weight difference in favor the of the FR-S.

Personally this always mystified me considering they are going to be built identically for the USDM market, and the only real difference is the fact the BRZ has a navigation head unit and maybe the weight of a couple extra ballasts for the HID system. How people thought this would be a big difference is beyond me.

To those who don't know, the curb weights for both production versions of the vehicles have been posted. What's the difference? Just how much more does the BRZ weigh compared to the FR-S? 4 pounds. The BRZ weighs 4 pounds more than the FR-S. When the difference between the two cars is less than packing your lunch, it's time to stop professing what a great performance benefit the weight savings is giving you.
damn, its that close for the premium BRZ vs FR-S, what about the limited?

too lazy to do the search.
wu_dot_com is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.