Toyota S-FR Concept!!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Mazda seems like a no-brainer to team up with to supply drivetrain and chassis technology...The 115bhp Skyactive 1.5 is already being shared in the former Scion iA and Toyota Yaris, and a quick warm-up tune could put it in the 130bhp range, which would work nicely with a ~2100 pound curb weight of the S-FR. Miata NC 5 speed could be shared with the Fiat 124. Similarly, between the FT86 and NC/ND Miata platforms, I'm sure an inexpensive and effective chassis/suspension solution could be arranged.

I think Toyota is afraid the S-FR and the 86 are too closely related, in terms of market. They're both small 4 cyl 2+2 coupes, blah blah blah...

I can't comment on chassis, but Mazda drivetrains aren't good enough to be borrowed IMO. It's just that they have updated their stuff slightly more often than Toyota which prefers to milk each redesign for as long as possible to make money.

The Skyactiv-X is really neat but it's probably very expensive since it's supercharged. The Skyactiv-G got its high compression ratio partially by sacrificing some VE. That fancy exhaust manifold they put on it probably cost a lot of money. The direct injected Toyota _R-FSE/FXS engines performed pretty well and probably made Toyota more money.

The Dynamic Force engines have a little bit more grunt than the Skyactiv-G first gen engines. Feed them some 91 octane and run the 14:1 pistons, they could probably make 90hp/L without any other changes. I'd be mostly okay with that, though to make more power at high rpm it would probably need a supercharger since the port is a high tumble design.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nope they have never said that.
They really have never said anything on any official level about any tiered level of cars. A couple of company representative have said they would "like" to see three levels and the so called press ran with those comments and made loads of crap up.

Tada himself said that if a third sports car is made by Toyota it won't be cheaper than the 86.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Tada himself said that if a third sports car is made by Toyota it won't be cheaper than the 86.

Link?
Be willing to bet that the "press" twisted a statement.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I can't comment on chassis, but Mazda drivetrains aren't good enough to be borrowed IMO.

Kind of an irrelevant opinion, only because Toyota has already been borrowing them, and specifically the current N/A SkyActive family. And Fiat is using drivetrain components as well... they're plenty robust enough for their applications, enough so that they're a solid candidate for shared technology between competing brands. And certainly at the power and weight levels we're talking for a 1.5 liter, 2100-2200 pound car, they'd be solid.

I mean, I totally ignored the fact that Mazda already has a 130 bhp Skyactive 1.5 and entire driveline developed and in production for the RWD ND MX5 platform. This whole exercise just got even easier and cheaper, from a development POV...complete, assembled powertrains would be dropped off on the loading dock at the S-FR factory. This would basically be a body building exercise for Toyota. And I think, culturally speaking, that it's be a lot easier to integrate Mazda as a business partner than it was BMW...

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Link?
Be willing to bet that the "press" twisted a statement.

I came across that statement too. Not sure how twisted it was (I cant recall what was ACTUALLY stated though), but it was an interview with Tada and was just some tidbit about if Toyota were to make a third sports car it likely couldn't be made cheaper than an 86.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I came across that statement too. Not sure how twisted it was (I cant recall what was ACTUALLY stated though), but it was an interview with Tada and was just some tidbit about if Toyota were to make a third sports car it likely couldn't be made cheaper than an 86.

Well if accurate it would be yet another nail in the SF-R's coffin. Although I am pretty sure that at this point the coffin has already been securely nailed and buried in the ground anyway.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Mazda has been making the Miata for a long. long time. The costs of redesigning and building it are not the same as starting from scratch.
Oh, and let's not forget that the new Miata's are built on a platform that is...


(drumroll please)


A joint venture!

I think Mazda and Fiat just came to an agreement to share the MX5...
In which fiat just took the MX5, replaced the engine with on of their own changed the nose a bit and tuned it differently. Just going a bit further than completely rebadging the car like Toyota/Mazda did with the Mazda2 sedan/Yaris sedan/iA.

Similar to Supra/Z4 but Toyota/BMW was a ground up collab using BMW parts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I think Mazda and Fiat just came to an agreement to share the MX5...
In which fiat just took the MX5, replaced the engine with on of their own changed the nose a bit and tuned it differently. Just going a bit further than completely rebadging the car like Toyota/Mazda did with the Mazda2 sedan/Yaris sedan/iA.

Similar to Supra/Z4 but Toyota/BMW was a ground up collab using BMW parts.

Still a joint venture for a model that may or may not have happened without the collaboration.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Link?
Be willing to bet that the "press" twisted a statement.

I took @funwheeldrive exact phrase and stuck in Google to come up with this article.

Originally Posted by Random Internet Article

“I believe most people are looking forward to the smallest of the ‘three brothers'” said Tada. “And when people say the smallest they expect it would be the most affordable. But in reality coming up with a compact small sports car is quite difficult.”

[Dadhawk]

and this one that says:

Originally Posted by Another Internet Hack

That, unfortunately, makes a production version of Toyota’s S-FR concept from the 2015 Tokyo motor show highly unlikely – and means that any revival of the MR2 is likely to sit above the current GT86 in Toyota’s lineup, rather than directly replace the MX-5-rivalling third-generation MR2.

[krayzie]

The MR-2 couldn't have been cheaper than the Sprinter Truneo / Levin. Neither would have been the Celica.

The 86/BRZ will always be the cheapest brother, unless they revive the Starlet (but this is basically the Yaris).

I think Toyota really had at least 5 brothers in the sporty department not just 3.

This SF-R is a revival of the Sera at best.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I took @funwheeldrive exact phrase and stuck in Google to come up with this article.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

and this one that says:

In other words no where near the statements that have been bantered about here.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Link?
Be willing to bet that the "press" twisted a statement.

EVO is the one that supposedly got the statement directly from Tada. Then that story spawned about a dozen similar stories which all said the same thing.

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/gt-86/1...orts-car-range

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26953/...model-below-86

[Sasquachulator]

So after all these years of speculation we know several things:

-Toyota still wants a '3 brothers' sports car lineup (86, Supra and one other)
-The SFR is unlikely to ever come out (unconfirmed but all signs point to dead)
-It is safe to assume that there is a high possibility that Toyota is going to go forward and create an 86 which has a high chance of being collaborated with Subaru again. (Because Subaru says they're not ditching the BRZ, Toyota says the 86 is important, none of them confirm nor deny any information about a second gen 86 other than the actual fact that both companies definitely would like to continue with the 86/BRZ product line and are looking into it)
-A third sports car with a price range below the 86 is going to be difficult to develop.

In other words, there actually is no new information in the rumors of any of Toyota's sports cars.